Pre-match: (EURO 2012 - Quarter Final) Germany vs. Greece 06.22.2012 [R]

It doesn't matter what you put as many fans already have in their brain an imaginary vision of Klose and it's not going to change unless Germany gets kicked out of the tournament again with him leading the line.

Really hoping for this vs Italy/England:
-----------Gomez-----------
-Reus----Ozil------Muller-
------Pig----Khedira-------

Maybe Muller and Reus switch sides I don't know. But Schweini in particular has been very poor, if he is not fit he shouldn't play. I think Kroos should have played vs Greece having seen his poor performance, but hindsight is wonderful when I and others can act like experts and play the "what if" game after the match is already over.

 

By the way I agree on the Reus-Ozil combination, those two switching it around looked good and hope they can build on it the next game. Logically speaking, you would think Reus plays next game and doesn't disappoint. Hoping it will be true on both accounts.

 

You have to learn that talking positively about Klose is not an indictment of Gomez. It's this kind of ideology that drives this stupid narrative.

At the end of the day we want the entire team to thrive and what we saw yesterday indicated a more fluid Germany creating its best chances playing its best football. Part of that had to do with a continually good midfield, Oezil, and Schuerrle, and specifically Reus, but also Klose whose movement simply allows the players behind him to get involved more and link up. That isn't a myth, that's quite simply a fact.

Klose can absolutely be sharper and he wasn't good enough last night because we expect him to score but that's never been the argument. We simply play different with him on the pitch. In fact, we would play the same way with a similar striker to him, than someone like Gomez. With Gomez we don't necessarily play worse or would lose but it's a huge risk as Bayern's play indicated all season. It doesn't mean it's a formula for near-success and neither is having Klose on the pitch. The truth remains that a more mobile and dynamic striker gets the best out of the current set-up we have.

You overstate his passing completion. 20/24 isn't terrible and you'd expect that from someone with his lack of match fitness. Similarly Reus and Oezil mistimed passes because they simply didn't play together enough.

Moreover if you will analyze statistics, look at the important ones, specifically, heatmap, chances created (admittedly he had two last night) and the number of pass categories; short (20/24), forward(10/12), backward (7/7), square (3/5) - a display of someone who is actively involved in bringing others in and creating chances for others to create chances.

The question isn't whether he was average or not. That's a dumb argument for the sake of diminishing his role in the collective. It's what he brought to the team. It's simply a different tactic than going with Gomez, but I think it just suit the likes of Reus, Goetze, and Schuerrle more.

Of course, we have yet to see how we fare with a Reus and Gomez on at the same time. I reckon we might see that next match.

 

BTW, it´s the first time Im not nervous of playing either italy or england in the ko-stages. Not because they are weak, which of course they are not, but the confidence level rises. That team has the potential to beat absolutly everyone. I´d actually hope for a Italy-Match to get the "revenge" for 2006

 

Lahm and Schweinsteiger sounded far away from confident when they were talking about a possible Italy game. They all want England to win, which is understandable given our record against England and in comparison Italy, but nevertheless, I would have expected the players to be a bit more confident.

I was in Danzig, the game and atmosphere were very good (the organisation of the event wasn't), I might return for the semi-final in Warschau.

 

Well, I haven´t heard that yet. I still think we can beat Italy for sure, IF the players don´t shit their pants like they did against Spain anno 2010.

 

see, that's one thing (the other is that Prandelli and Italy will likely have a plan to destroy our play again) I'm worried about because they sounded exactly like what you are describing.

 

I see where your coming from and it is likely that Italy would be a huge challenge in terms of mentality, but somehow I have this feeling that this time - it´s our time to rise and shine. But before that, let them play Englad before and we´ll see who will be our partner in the semis...

 

You say Klose had a good game while in reality he didn't, that's a "stupid narrative" and I tried to point this out and contrasted this to how harshly Gomez was treated for similar performances.

You talk about the theory, I talk about what I saw yesterday and in that match Klose's movement wasn't really impressive which is clearly shown by his covered distance. It's at least nothing Gomez wouldn't have done.

Klose CAN be such a player but he isn't at the moment. And I don't understand why Gomez should be a "huge risk" and where Bayern's play indicated that.
And it's only your "truth" that you are stating here. We also lost with Klose 2006 against Italy and two times against Spain and in all these matches was Klose pretty much invisible. Not that I blame him for that but let's not pretend that Klose has ever been at his best against such quality opponents.
Gomez on the other hand might be less involved but he can score at any time against any opponent and he shows this since two years in the CL and also did now in the NT once he was given the chance.

I didn't say it was terrible I was just stating facts and in Kloses case those were pass which should have lead to big goal scoring opportunities.
And it is of course obvious that Klose is not at his best (lack of "match fitness") but that is exactly my point.

And then I look at the game and see that we needed a wonder shot by Lahm and a goal by Khedira to get the lead against a very weak Greece. We won't get so many opportunities against our next opponents and thus we need to be more clinical.
What use does it have if Klose assists Özil and then that's the player who has to finish and wastes big chances? I rather have less chances but then someone like Gomez who has them.

I don't care what suits certain players, I care about winning the EC, not to mention that I don't see any reason why Reus, Götze or Schürrle should have any issues with Gomez upfront.
Our "different tactic" against Greece was simply caused by a very weak opponent.

I can only hope so.

 

I didn't even know that Klose having a good game was so controversial. That's a pretty universal fact after the game. Odd.

 

Thanks for this!

Schweini's is in fact very interesting. Clearly tried to dictate the gameplan yesterday, and also the fact he loves playing ball with Reus

 

The universal fact was that Klose had a very average game vs a very weak defence. The distance covered, pass completed says it all

 

Germany over all has been average, ALL the teams we play until we face Spain are mediocre at best.... You all didn't know that?

 

Those stats don't say it all. There's a way to use stats correctly and intelligently and not as a generality. He had a good game.

 

...and Gomez will never get FIFA POY (even though he speaks fluent Spanish)....lol

If they win it all, I just want it to reflect in my club's performance... And this rotation thing, could be a good thing, maybe our guys won't be dog tired when they get back.

 

He wasted chances, played sloppy passes and was the least involved player of our team. That's not "good" for me against such a opponent. It was overall "okay", he did his job but nothing more and didn't really convince me that he would be an improvement to Gomez.

 

He didn't have a good game? It's absurd for you to try and diminish what he offers but it's another to distort reality and claim he didn't have a good game. Coming into the match relatively unfit for the first time this tournament in a starter role, combining with others and being partially responsible for our fluidity, and scoring. I'm sorry, nobody in the world would believe he 'didn't have a good game.

But you're simply wrong here. The covered distance statistic is used wrong here. Look at the passing and his positioning, that's all you need. Moreover look at Oezil and Reus' involvement.

Playing with a striker who generally needs to be catered to is dangerous because it doesn't bring the players into play who can eventually make a difference and create chances for themselves. Bayern was often amputated because of their over-reliance on Gomez. With him on the field, we are forced to play more traditionally with wide men crossing into the box. Our players aren't best suited for that.

Terrible contextualization. Klose wasn't the player in 2006 he is now nor did he play the same role. In fact this is such an obtuse point that I'm beginning to think you're just trying to wind people up here. Or you simply don't understand how our tactical approach has changed.

Against Spain, he wasn't even in the top five of problems of why we couldn't beat them.

But you are blaming him.

Pure conjecture. A striker who remains in the box will always be more likely to received passes but we would have to alter our shape as a result. We are not a team whose primary gameplan is to get wide and cross the ball into the box. We were in 2006.

It's a different argument that Klose, Oezil, Reus, and Schuerrle were wasteful than creating a false narrative that Klose was 'average' or 'didn't have a good match'.

The main problem was simply that we were wasteful and some of our passes were mis-timed because this group don't have much experience playing together at this level.

Right. This is the biggest problem. You simply don't grasp the tactical nous.

 

Least involved player? You mean like every striker who plays in a football match? Gomez has even less touches than Klose usually in a match, that statistic doesn't help you much. And what sloppy passes? He was involved in most of the 26 chances the team created. Care to be more specific? He brought the other attackers in the game well, made terrific runs, always provided an option, dragged defenders out of place, etc. He had a good game.

 

They both had good tournaments so far considering the bench, the opponents, the match fitnesses, etc...

They both can be used freely in any tactical formation loew needs per opponent faced..