Buffon is an all time great and Oblak has some very special qualities. Two players I think of comparing Horvath to are Van Der Saar and Friedel.... based mostly on size and "connection". One of the things that always frustrated me about Freidel was that he wasnt more dominant on crosses given his physical tools. Of course he didnt know or care about my frustration. He had his style and it generally worked well for him. He often stayed on his line on balls I thought he could get, but he had good footwork getting his positioning correct that he could make reflex saves with his big frame. I think Steffen earned the #1 spot with his play with the USMNT. He has done generally well enough in MLS and nobody has made a strong enough of an argument to unseat him. I would have gave him all of the minutes in the next two games to further cement that position and hopefully he would move in January. I also think that it would be better for Ethan to more games under his belt to be completely sharp when he gets his next shot. However, Steffen has pulled out of the camp with an injury, so hopefully Horvath gets a shot and makes the most of it. I hear you about the fairness of the criticism on here. Many are at the extremes and why I try, but probably dont always succeed, to talk about specific plays or areas of a players game than make vague and broad comments about how bad a player was. Steffen didnt have a good game last night. The first two goals were from within 12 yards and he was screened on the third, but all were savable. He was guilty of what I pointed out about Horvath against Monaco... he wasnt constantly moving his feet to get the right angle as the ball moved and tended to over play the near post. The first goal looked like a tough shot to save but placed very closely to where he should have been. He committed early the wrong way on the second. The third looked like the easiest to save but he saw it late, but again should have been half step to his left.
As I recall, Friedel went to Liverpool where he never played, and then Galatasaray in Turkey before coming back to MLS before having a successful career in Europe. Perhaps Steffan might take a similar route.
I remember an article posted about him that he watched a lot of the Bundesliga. I kinda wonder if he'd prefer that over a move to the PL (should the opportunity arise).
Not quite. Went to Denmark for half a season (1995), then Turkey (1995-96). Did fine at both, starting at the latter. Came back to the Columbus Crew for the tail end of the 1996 season and most of the 97 season before he finally got his work permit accepted by the EPL. Big setbacks in Friedel's career (imo) were 1) the continual work visas being denied and 2) Kasey Keller with the national team, which compounded the first issue of proving himself to the PL as a first string, national team candidate. But I wouldn't really say Liverpool was a setback. He didn't perform poorly and Liverpool opted to go another direction with their goalkeeping. They had some very good goalkeepers in while Friedel was there as well. He wrote about the transfers in his book, which has been a while since I've read, but iirc Liverpool was always the goal (since a kid) but at a certain point he was unhappy with the setup and wanted a fresh start elsewhere. He would go on to be one of the best EPL gks in the league's (short) history so I think he showed Liverpool missed out, to some extent. But I wouldn't say Steffen failed in Germany either. I actually think he was starting to make some waves but thought coming back to MLS would further his career in the long run. Fine enough. So I suppose there are some parallels between the two gks' movements but I don't think Steffen has really failed up into this point. Now if he stays in MLS for too long, different story, but he's at a good launching point in his career.
I had read some (rumor) that Friedel was starting in the 98-99 and keeping David James from any meaningful starting time (and this was hurting him at a time when he was the no.1 for England).
Seaman was Englands no.1, he was practically unchallenged, Martyn was no.2, James was no.3 and much maligned. Friedel was a great keeper but he hogged his line that's what prevented him from being first choice at a real big club, though Spurs were emerging. Great shot stopper, amazing concentration, terrible sweeper, one of the worst in the league, just not mobile in that way. There was no conspiracy. Also he peaked at a later age, which is held against you, that was unfair. Also Friedel wasn't very good for Liverpool.
Hogged his line? what do you mean by this? Well, I only said it was a rumor. Not to be taken as matter of factly. But I can def imagine during the 90's or 00's where an issue of weak English keepers (given less playing time) might send the England manager to investigate with their clubs to see what's up. I never saw him play for the Reds, so I wouldn't know. Was he terrible or just not good enough to be no.1 permanently? He def bounced back. I gotta imagine he's 1 of the best keepers for mid-tier clubs in the PL. Like he and Ben Foster and Tim Howard. Not capable of being no.1 at a CL club in the PL, but capable to start for any other in the league.
Seaman and Martyn were highly rated keepers. Leeds fans voted Martyn their greatest ever keeper, and they hate anyone who didn't play under Don Revie. That Leeds team got to the European Cup semi final with Martyn in goal. We had good keepers in the 90's. There is a Jack Charlton documentary called "The Irish Years" and they discussed his problems with Packie Bonner who was a great shot stopped but had a similar style to Friedel. Neither were particularity prophylactic in their approach. Don't get me wrong I think Brad was a terrific keeper and if he peaked a few years earlier his career may have been a bit more glamorous but he didn't leave Liverpool of all clubs because they were protecting England's third choice keeper.
I didn't state that he did. Only that for a while he kept the England no.3 on the bench. He didn't do enough to permanently secure the no.1 spot (for whatever reason). The 90's was before my time, so i don't know how Seaman/Martyn compared to the Cechs and Van Der Sar of the 00's.
Friedel played the final 11 games of 97/98. Friedel started the first 8 games of 98/99. James was barely in the England squad when he was at Liverpool. Named in 2 squads and played once. http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamPlyrsBios/PlayersIJ/BioJamesDB.html There is a reason he had the nickname Calamity James, stems from his Liverpool career.
Was Seaman/Martyn/James known as great sweeper keepers? Honestly asking. Also my mistake on saying James was England's number one at the time, but I would still imagine an EPL manager would be pressured to start a goalkeeper who was on the cusp of the England squad.
Pressure from who? James was error prone at Liverpool, which is why they kept trying to replace him. Seaman, Flowers, Martyn and Walker were the keepers who were being called up. One of Flowers or Martyn being on the bench. James wasn't on the cusp of the squad. Why during that period? As detailed above, weren't really looking for a keeper.
Because of English feelings about foreign players. I didn't follow. but i have read of grumblings here or there even until the 00's. And of course when England failed to make Euro 08, accusations about the playing time of English players. I'm gonna try and look for the source. It's been some years. It was again supposedly a rumor.
No. Fans of individual teams want their teams to win, doesn't matter where they are from. You didn't follow but you heard rumours and grumblings.... Well done.
I didn't say the fans did. The accusations would be from the media or pissed off coaches looking for scapegoats. Maybe I can find the source and you can ease off
Oh. Right. Which pissed off coaches? The England managers? The media exists to complain. Remember - We are talking about James and Friedel. Who was pressuring the Liverpool managers to play James because of the England team?
He went from not being on the cusp to earning 50+ caps for England? Also still wondering on your take of Friedel's lack of sweeper keeper abilities vs. Seaman + company.
He played for Liverpool 200 times while being error-prone so I'm assuming there was some pressure from someone to play him.
https://sports.yahoo.com/difficult-...than-horvath-ready-next-chance-233324746.html LONDON — In some ways, Ethan Horvath is still crazy young for a goalkeeper. At a position where it’s not uncommon to be serviceable north of 40 years old, the Colorado native, 23, remains a long way from reaching his prime. By other measures, Horvath can no longer be considered a prospect. He’s already a good bit older than U.S. teammates Christian Pulisic and Weston McKennie, who at 20 are automatic starters on the rebuilding American squad that will face England in Thursday’s high-profile friendly at Wembley Stadium. Horvath is among just seven players on the current USMNT roster who was also on the squad that finished fourth at the 2016 Copa America Centenario. And he’s desperate to take on a bigger role for a national team lacking an undisputed No. 1 at what historically has been its strongest spot. “In the beginning it was just about getting to know the group, the system,” Horvath told Yahoo Sports in an interview here this week. “Now I have a ton of experience: Europa League, Champions League, being called in to the national team consistently. If I play on Thursday, I will be ready.”" “In the beginning it was just about getting to know the group, the system,” Horvath told Yahoo Sports in an interview here this week. “Now I have a ton of experience: Europa League, Champions League, being called in to the national team consistently. If I play on Thursday, I will be ready.” Ah yes, games. For all of Horvath’s obvious potential — last week, his six saves helped Club Brugge post a clean sheet at Monaco in the UEFA Champions League group stage — consistent playing time has been elusive the last couple of years. The most recent of his two career caps came exactly 12 months ago. And he’s reclaimed his starting job with Brugge in recent weeks after sitting out 13 of 14 games before that and also losing his place for a six-month stretch last season, although he did return to the lineup in time to help Brugge win the league title. I thought it was a bit unfair how everything unfolded,” said Horvath, who sought advice from friends, family and former coaches, including ex-USMNT boss Jurgen Klinsmann, during his time on the sidelines. “You just have to take it. There wasn’t much explaining to me at all, and there was nothing I could do about it. It was probably the longest six to eight months of my career.”" “I thought it was a bit unfair how everything unfolded,” said Horvath, who sought advice from friends, family and former coaches, including ex-USMNT boss Jurgen Klinsmann, during his time on the sidelines. “You just have to take it. There wasn’t much explaining to me at all, and there was nothing I could do about it. It was probably the longest six to eight months of my career.” View photos Ethan Horvath last played for the U.S. a year ago. (Tim Clayton/Getty Images) It didn’t help matters that in last November’s 1-1 tie with Portugal, which marked the Americans’ first game since their epic failure to reach the 2018 World Cup, Horvath made an error that resulted in a goal. “I think if you look at that game overall, I can be happy with how I performed.”" “It happens, but of course in the next days I thought about it,” said Horvath, who received a pep talk from Pulisic, his close friend and roommate with the U.S., after the match. “I think if you look at that game overall, I can be happy with how I performed.” Still, it has been fellow 23-year-old Zack Steffen, not Horvath, who has emerged as the next great U.S. goalkeeping hope, following the likes of World Cup standouts Tim Howard, Brad Friedel and Tony Meola. Then Steffen withdrew from this roster because of a hamstring injury. That cracked the door open for Horvath, who will likely split the final two U.S. games of the year with veteran Brad Guzan. The Americans meet Italy in Belgium next week. “The margins between Brad and Zack and a few others are fairly thin,” interim coach Dave Sarachan said Wednesday. “Ethan’s been playing quite well for Club Brugge … it’s good to have some good competition there.” Like Horvath, Guzan wants to play. The 34-year-old served as Howard’s understudy at the 2010 and 2014 World Cups and he’s not going to go quietly, not with the chance to lead the U.S. to Qatar 2022 very much up for grabs.
He had 2 or 3 call ups whilst at Liverpool. Didn't get called up after 97 until after he left. Seaman was dropped in 2002 or so. Martyn retired from internationals around then. Flowers quit in about 98 or so. Kind of left by default he became number one keeper then was in and out of the side. 53 games in 13 years isn't a lot. His glorious England career in full. http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamPlyrsBios/PlayersIJ/BioJamesDB.html I wasn't the one comparing Friedel staying on his line. They didn't sign anyone better. Despite trying. Hence Friedel and Westerveld, amongst others, being signed. Again. Who do you think the pressure was coming from ?
53 is 6th all-time for English goalkeepers since, what, like the 1800s? lol Newspapers, agents, coaches, players, pundits, etc. The places where pressure usually comes from. You sign an English YNT player and there are going to be some general expectations about him playing. He didn't casually play 200 matches for Liverpool on accident. This thread we're on doesn't really have anything to do with Horvath so w/e. I just find it funny how someone came out of the woodwork to shoot down the idea that David James was a good goalkeeper lol.