Ethan Horvath at Club Brugge

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Mar 23, 2012.

  1. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    do you enjoy always a question to a question followed up with my question to your question to my question?
     
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  2. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    I think he must. What do you think?
     
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  3. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Different strokes. They'll say it - if they say it - at the start of the season. Just like they'll tell the No. 1 that the No. 2 will only start if the No. 1 is injured or in the likes of the Carabao Cup.

    And none of it will mean a damned thing if the No. 1 starts shitting bed - and keeps shitting it. That's when the different strokes part kicks in. An Ethan gets no benefit of the doubt over a Letica and vice versa. The No. 2 for your highly-ranked MNT who's unwilling to bench-warm for the CL champions any more - **and** has a shop-window MNT tournament in the summer - will a) be the given 2-5 more games to turn it around and b) get restored to starter as soon as he starts looking good in training. But if he shows the yips again . . .
     
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  4. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    There are times that clubs or coaches go out of their way to reassure a quality keeper that they will get their chance, or will be platooned or whatever, in order to let them know they are not going to be left to languish. I recall Tuchel made some statement to that effect when PSG brought in Buffon and the club really seemed to piss of Areola when they brought in Buffon.

    So, I don't know about "usually" but there are certainly times clubs have worked relatively hard to let a good keeper who is moving to backup that he is in their plans going forward or will get some games.
     
  5. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #2605 The Irish Rover, Oct 19, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    And the seeming lack of that "you're in our plans going forward, be patient" message is telling IMO.

    Signing Mingolet at the price (6.5 million pounds) surely included scenarios with him showing well in the CL, solidifying his MNT place for the Euros and Brugge flipping him for +10 million this autumn or next. There's going to be a vacancy in the short-to-medium term.

    Not working hard at keeping Ethan onside points to them having concluded that his ceiling is in the "some are easier to replace than others" category. If PT is Ethan's priority his best case is a horizontal move in the Jupiler, the Eredivisie or BL2.
     
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  6. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    this is my take. Either Brugge is just full of jerks who can't be bothered to player manage (possible) or they really don't value Horvath enough for him to stick around. Dude is good enough to help a team someplace, even as an understudy. But Brugge is not doing much to show the love.
     
  7. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #2607 The Irish Rover, Oct 19, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    And their repeated success in European competitions over the last 5-8 years (for a Belgian side anyway) points to them being pretty good at managing players and squads, not bad.

    It's not good by any means, but Ethan's only 24; very young for a GK and he's already a decent quality player. That's not really a platform for getting mad at Brugge, but it's a great one for getting even with them down the line.
     
  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Guess it's time to add Belgium to the list with Spain, Portugal, Italy and France.
     
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  9. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Just as well - no Horvath today. Because, damn.
     
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  10. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    That was a massacre. Good lord.
     
  11. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Any big errors by Mignolet or simply the fact this was PSG's attack and they were guaranteed to get some goals?
     
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  12. HockeytownHeel

    Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 23, 2018
    lol i think its hilarious... eff em.. they are getting what they paid for and then some.

    Serves them right. I cant wait for him to find first team minutes elsewhere. If I was him I would hit up the Netherlands, France or Germany BL2.
     
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  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Not really, he had some nice saves. I guess he was unlucky in the second goal, when he bounced the ball right into Mbappe's path.

    Otherwise, the difference was evident in that Mignolet is not the type to organize his defense. That's Navas great attribute. The Tico may not be a spectacular shot-stopper and may look nervous far too often, but if he manages another Orejona this time with PSG, he may well retire the most successful goalkeeper in the history of the game.

    And all that based on two attributes: directing the defense, and moving around the area enough to nip threats in the bud.

    In short, Mignolet looked ok, but nothing extraordinary.
     
  14. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd estimate Horvath keeps the total down to 3, saving the one Mignolet pawed in front and where he over-committed and was rounded.

    These are the games where they're supposed to make a ROI from having a supposedly higher-level keeper. But Horvath has more ability to win or keep you in a game on his own. Better athleticism and size. That led Molde and Brugge to some surprise results, aided by Horvath's spectacular saves. They'd win league either way.

    Not only did they burn all that money for a player they didn't need but they reduced Horvath's value in the process. Just bad management of funds that could hurt them majorly in the long run. They aren't Manchester United. Have to spend wisely.
     
  15. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Finally, the result we've been waiting for. :)
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I haven't watched enough of Horvath to have a strong opinion of him, but you do realize that no club evaluates its own players this way?

    Putting together a resume of clean sheets and team performance ... that's how a fan looks at it.

    Brugge is going to be looking at his shot stopping, how he commands the box, his distribution, how he communicates with and dictates the defense. Where he's improved, where they feel he's tapped. How he reacts to coaching. And so on.

    Perhaps they love his shot stopping but his distribution is preventing them from playing the way they want to play.

    I dunno. But I doubt it is as simple as looking at the basic stats and results.
     
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  17. soccersubjectively

    soccersubjectively BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 17, 2012
    Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well there's a couple of things you're overlooking but yes there is a big difference between a fan and club's view towards players. But when I - or anyone else - point out his shutouts in CL play, it should be taken for two things. First, he put himself in a position to be in those games. It's not like he just randomly showed up. He led his team into those games. He was part of the reason why Brugge originally qualified for those games and then proceeded to become the starter, after losing his position, just weeks heading into the CL matches. So there is a lot of background there that shouldn't be skipped over. He worked to be on that stage and didn't get a shutout in a friendly ICC match or whatever.

    Secondly, he has played well against top clubs in Europe, which says a lot for any player's cred. It's essentially why Lev Yashin and Nadine Angerer won player of the year honors: they had top performances against top competition. His teammates know that and his coaches know that. While shutouts should be a lead stat for why a gk is good, having three shutouts in CL play - and again, playing well - is something players/coaches remember about goalkeepers. Hell, it's something coaches overanalyze when it comes to goalkeepers. They're notorious for benching gks for a string of poor performances yet riding out a "hot hand" for a gk who has positive results even though they may have had some bad turnovers or errors in the game.

    So yes, just looking at results on a piece of paper is how fans look at it, but understanding the context and on-field performance is how the club looks at it internally, which is why people bring up CL shutouts specifically and not just any ol' random shutout.
     
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  18. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Letting in 5 goals is bad. Usually takes a whole team effort. Mbappe being on the opposition, backed by one of the top 10 teams in the world, also helps.

    Maybe Mignolet is playing great and getting worse results, but you'd need a LOT of advanced metrics to convince me of that. But I've only seen lowlights of this particular game.
     
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  19. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Was on the bench for a 3-0 win.
     
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  20. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Brugge plays PSG tomorrow

    In the league, they're #1 with 33 pts and a GD of +28. Only 4 goals conceded.

    @futbal nut, You gotta tell us he has a move in the works.
     
  21. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    "No, no, this time as soon as Simon starts declining, it's your turn."
    "For real? You've already lied to me twice, with Ludo and Karlo."
    "Yes, for real. Just a bit of patience, this time it's gonna be yours." [crossing fingers behind back]
     
  22. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Not called up for the November Nations League matches.

    The next window isn't until March, so Horvath is going to go at least a year between international call-ups.
     
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  23. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member

    Feb 13, 2016
    I'm pretty upset about his continued snubbing. Moderate level national teams call up talented players not getting playing time all the time, especially goalkeepers. Ethan's had a really tough past two years. Would Sean Johnson, Brad Guzan, or Matt Turner start over Simon Mignolet?

    No.

    It's a clear example of continued bias.

    More importantly it impacts his club career. Why would Brugge value a goalkeeper that can't get a callup over three MLS goalkeepers? And don't get me wrong MLS can develop a goalkeeper's shot stopping ability. But for the way that the Fed wants to play now, it requires more organization of the defense and playing out of the back. Those two things are definitely NOT developed in MLS.

    Horvath needs an emergency January loan anywhere. He's still young, but he can't be riding the bench anywhere right now.
     
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