The Odyssey continues: Erik Palmer-Brown at Panathinaikos

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by BostonRed, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the biggest problem now is that outside of FC Dallas and New York Red Bulls, teams do not know how to incorporate their youth prospects into first team play. Coaching ranks are full of newly retired MLS veterans who value veteran MLS players and distrust youth.
     
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  2. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    on top of that, maintaining 'parity' (which doesnt really exist in MLS) is actually very detrimental to youth development.

    In other leagues, yeah its boring knowing who will be at the top of the league...but its a lot better for players to be able to 'find a team at their level'...In MLS, young players have little say on which MLS team/situation they face. It's like theres a big basket of clothes and each player gets a random article and has to hope it fits. EPB jut happens to be on one of the few teams who has a bunch of CB's that are pretty good. Any other league, he would be loaned or even transferred to another team so he could play. and yeah he did get loaned already to porto...props to skc for that...but that was a rare thing for an MLS prospect and EPB's situation is still up in the air atm.

    Youth prospects are being developed inefficiently to the 'benefit' of 'clubs' that are actually all part of the same entity.
     
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  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. And most clubs haven't completely developed their reserve/USLPRo pathway yet.

    FCD, a team with a small fanbase and no pressure on the front office/coaching staff, was able to move in the youth/player development direction yeeeeeeeeeeeeeears ago. Pareja started their academy around 2007. So they've been at it for a decade. Other clubs are just figuring it out, and in many cases just really starting to take it seriously.

    To some degree, patience is going to be required here.

    In EPBs case I get the sense that he's told the front office that he's not signing a new contract & will leave after this season. So, what is SKC's incentive to develop him? They'll give him playing time if the coaching staff feels he gives them their best chance of winning. Kansas City, it has to be noted, hasn't conceded a goal yet this season.
     
  4. Gacm32

    Gacm32 Member+

    Chelsea
    Switzerland
    Nov 28, 2010
    Geneva
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    He's so damn good with the ball at his feet for a CB. That is a key component we've been missing for a long time on the national team (outside of Cam and JAB).
     
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  5. brjohnson

    brjohnson Member

    May 30, 2015
    indiana
    certainly see some potential at dm in that video. i like the idea of a jab, ccv and epb 3-headed monster.
     
  6. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    GREAT potential at CB. he doesn't have the vision or passing range at DM. imo
     
  7. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. jwat15

    jwat15 Member

    Oct 7, 2010
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    It'll be interesting to see where he plays in the u20 we if get all our choice CBs. I think he'll stay at defensive midfield then
     
  9. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It's not that bad.

    Add RSL to those two please. They have 7 HGPs plus Brooks Lennon who went to Liverpool but is back on loan.

    LAG been very aggressive with their academies but just haven't had quite the same level of talent. Maybe some of it is that LAG has an itchy trigger finger with buying outside talent and spots have not been quite as forthcoming.

    DCU has not been aggressive at all but have lucked out with some good talent.

    Seattle should get credit for doing a lot with the smaller talent base that they have. This in spite of spending a lot in DPs.

    The Crew do their best but have not really unearthed the gems that Seattle have found.

    The Union are really investing heavily on their academy and will soon reap the benefits.

    The rest are meh to horrible.
     
  10. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be clear, I don't think the problem is in developing players talented enough to become professionals. I think the problem is in finding ways to get 19-21 year old players meaningful minutes with the first team (especially for creative players) so that they grow instead of stagnate at a formative stage.

    Even the players that do find the field seem to have their creativity reduced by playing...just fill your role and be a good pro. Even in the little things, like for Andy Najar at DC United. Absolutely unparalleled on the team, even at 19, in delivering set pieces - hard driven ball with accuracy. Did he take free kicks? Almost never. If I was advising a really talented 18 year old and MLS came calling, I'd first say find a good youth setup overseas, or if you're not comfortable moving, play at least 2 years in college.
     
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  11. PalmettoSpur

    PalmettoSpur Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Out of curiosity, do you ever watch Spurs? I don't think Victor Wanyama has amazing vision or passing range, but he absolutely terrorizes opposing teams with relentless energy and physicality, then makes the smart, simple pass to an open teammate.

    I think you can still excel in that DM role without supreme passing ability. Wanyama's job is simply to disrupt with his freakish athleticism, win the ball back, and if possible, get it to the team's playmaker(s). He has 2 assists in 112 Premier League matches, but he's arguably Spurs' most consistently dominant player.

    Victor Wanyama stats

    I think, given his physical attributes, EPB could play that role and really flourish.

    On the other hand, you're right that he looks like he could also be a freakish CB. But if we have other great CB options available, I'd say put them in the back and EPB in the midfield.

    Wherever he winds up, I'm excited about him!
     
  12. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heck, the obvious reference/example here in Kante. He will win the Premier League and player of the year. He has zero assists and one goal. All I really want and what you've proven to need at that spot to win at the highest levels is field range, positional discipline, and not making your passes predominantly square or back. Which Kante doesn't. He makes a vanilla forward pass usually, maybe after evading one player, and that starts the build-up on the right foot. EPB really did the same thing in the CONCACAF u-20 championships. And he possesses positional discipline plus field range in spades. I see no reason to not continue playing him at the position internationally. He's equipped to play it, we're strong at cb, and weak at dm. We're trying to shoehorn 8's like Bradley into the spot. The next gen projections by some are to play fellow 8's by trade in Roldan and Acosta there. Cameron should be doing it now but even if he was he's 30+. I think EPB's best chance to impact the national team and make really big bucks in his career is to keep playing and developing at dm.
     
  14. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    I wonder how many Swope Park Rangers FIFA.com has interviewed before.
     
  15. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    He's better on the ball, a better passer and a better dribbler than Wanyama, as well.
     
  16. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Playing against lesser players than Wanyama plays against
     
  17. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Sounds like all he needs is long-range shooting and he's the finished article.

    Just to be sure we're speaking the same language, what do you mean by "field range"? Is that what we call "box-to-box" or "great engine" over here?
     
  18. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I used that phrase to separate it from passing range that was previously being talked about. He has range in covering a lot of the field.
     
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  19. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Stamina and pace.
     
  20. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Great engine then. Many thanks
     
  21. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There were reports a while back of Ajax interest, and I think (no homer) that would be a good landing spot at this point. IMO one of their weaker areas on a strong team is d-mid. Not a fan of what I've seen from Viergever when I've had a chance to see Ajax this season. And EPB is versatile. He's the type of player who could get significant minutes at multiple positions on a young team who'll be in Champion's League play as well as trying to win Eredivisie. If KC would take a modest offer they'd at least get something in return for their development, EPB could play several months earlier and not hurt himself perceptionally by never playing for the club, and Ajax could secure a player who still has significant upside but there would be plenty of competition for on the open market.

    Incidentally, I think Ajax would be a good option for a number of our kids, i.e.: Koreniuk, Miazga, and Sargent (could play earlier on the 1st team there than a really big club or in Germany) as well. You could do worse than a team who plays their quick passing, dynamic style, and who I think has a sneaky good chance to make a run in Champion's League next season. They also could be compelled to sell some players who are in the European shop window right now seeing as though they've made a run to the Europa League final (which I think they'll win).
     
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  22. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    This guy goes so under the radar.

    I really view him as the most talented footballer we currently have. And not necessarily best right now, but most talented with the most natural tools.

    Tab Ramos (the U-20 coach) said the other day in an interview with SiriusXM Radio that he has the highest ceiling from a player out of the back that he's ever seen in the USA.

    I completely agree. He is so athletic. The game the other day against Ecuador he was very solid. He did make one error though, but he recovers so well. He covered about double the ground in his recovery that the attacker did, which deterred an excellent chance on goal. In the qualifying tournament final, he did the same thing, but over more ground, video in the quote below.

    And he's not just very fast, he's also very good in the air, he's strong, and he's incredibly good with the ball at his feet. The consensus seems to be that he's the best ball playing CB we've developed, and I completely agree with that. He has the ability to take the ball, dribble by a few defenders, and advance the ball into the other team's half of the field if he wants. He has excellent feet, especially for someone with his size and athleticism. He's able to sidestep defenders with feints and quick footwork easily. And he's also shown a very nice passing range, as well.

    This goes along with improved defensive play as he's gotten older and more experienced against better players. I'm not sure he made a single error in the qualifying tournament, and he was the most solid defender we had in the first U-20 WC game.

    Its hard to believe that his club team has him playing in USL. I think everyone's gonna be laughing at them in five years. Porto fans when their team didn't sign him due to financial reasons were saying that the same thing is going to happen to their club.
     
  23. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it really that surprising considering how SKC's starting CBs (Opara/Besler) have played this season? I mean Opara has arguably been defender of the year in MLS so far this season and Besler is the club's captain and until recently a regular national team call up. Would it be better for him to sit on the bench and have played 1 MLS game this season (replace Ellis in Minnesota game) before leaving for the u20s? Or at least get playing time? And before throwing out the idea of playing him at d-mid, remember KC brought in Ilie Sanchez this offseason who had been one of the better foreign additions this season.

    I say all this as someone who wants EPB to get time with SKC, but with the form Opara/Besler are in (5 goals allowed in 11 games they've played together this season) EPB wasn't going to win the job over them at the moment. Hopefully upon his return he can supplant Ellis as 3rd CB (pray pretty much every SKC fan).
     
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  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #1124 ussoccer97531, May 23, 2017
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
    What about last season or the season before? Opara hasn't been able to stay healthy prior to this season, and was not playing as well in those seasons when he was healthy as he was now. Last season, SKC was rotating their CB's. The season before Kevin Ellis was earning playing time over Palmer-Brown. And if SKC actually wanted to give him a chance, they could've cleared out Opara or given Palmer-Brown the chance to start instead. Opara was not so highly regarded coming into the season, most thought of him as a talented player who's made of glass, not a terribly reliable MLS starter. And on Besler, people know that I'm just about the biggest fan on this website of his game and I wouldn't advise that they get rid of him, but NYRB got rid of their captain McCarty to make way for Adams.

    SKC can make all the excuses they want. Maybe some are valid, maybe some are not, I've exhausted that discussion and would rather move onto discussing his future club prospects in Europe, but I have a feeling that in a few years people are going to be laughing about the fact that this guy wasn't ever "good enough" or however anyone wants to describe it to play for SKC with any regularity, meanwhile worse players his age like Glad and Redding are having success in MLS with double, triple, quadruple the amount of MLS appearances, regardless of what the circumstances are. IMO, SKC had their chance to develop a star out of their academy, and they've decided to pass the buck. I don't think it'll have such a big impact on his career, but I think it'll have an effect on what talented players from their academy (Lindsey, Busio, etc.) choose to do, and it'll make it a very easy decision for a player like Sargent who's rights SKC has.
     
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  25. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe MLS needs to start loans within the league. No maybe about it, MLS needs to start intra-league loans for young players. Maybe it's possible, but I can't think of any that haven't been outright trades (@bshredder ?). EPB could help SOME team in MLS.

    But this is what kills me about so many MLS managers...SKC is in first int he West, they can easily take a chance on dropping a few points over the course of the season to play EPB and still make the playoffs (barring total collapse). What is the chance Vermes does that?
     

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