The Odyssey continues: Erik Palmer-Brown at Panathinaikos

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by BostonRed, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that would be general consensus. Along the same line, do you think Steffen is better than Klinsmann because he is already a starting keeper at the MLS level?
     
  2. Sizmik

    Sizmik Member+

    Dec 21, 2011
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Steffen has always and will always be better than Klinsmann....guy is a damn good keep and I'm not really sure what the issue was overseas
     
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  3. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Member+

    Jul 24, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vermes is not someone I care for. Coaching version of Zusi. No idea how they got the respect they have.
     
  4. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Member+

    Jul 24, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Steffen is better than Klinnsman because Klinnsman is incompetent AF.
     
  5. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Klinsmann who? Jonathan? Steffen is miles better than Jonathan Klinsmann is. Jonathan Klinsmann isn't even top 5 in his age group. He was given special treatment because the U-20 coach was employed by his father for years.

    I'm not exactly sure what your point is though. What do they have to do with each other?
     
  6. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, I was reinforcing your comment about EPB. My comment about the keepers was another matter, to point out that not our best keeper was used for the qualifiers.
     
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  7. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    My mistake then. Carry on. :)
     
  8. chrome_vapors

    chrome_vapors Member+

    Oct 15, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Legitimate homesickness.
     
  9. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #1085 The Irish Rover, Mar 8, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
    Depends on the club in question, but the pre-EPL English first division took developing players pretty seriously. That includes the then-top clubs like United, Spurs, Everton, Arsenal, Forest, etc. The TV money wasn't there, so they could only buy the best that was in England at the time, and good coaching and patience might yield that kind of player in a few years?

    To the extent that their youth teams produced fewer starters, Liverpool were an exception. Their development model focused on spotting talented younger players (in the 20-23 age group) at lower-division teams and bringing them through over a 2-3 year period to get another exceptional cog in a fine-tuned machine. Kevin Keegan was the most famous example of that pattern, but there were others. For Irishmen of my era (don't ask :p) Jim Beglin was another. Which is a roundabout way of saying that they didn't develop many youth players, but developed plenty of young players.

    Pre-SKY TV, even the biggest English clubs actually paid rather poorly compared to the continent. Kevin Keegan was an established star at Liverpool when he moved to HSV, and went form 15k Sterling a year to 250k a year with a much better tax deal. Liam Brady left Arsenal for the same reasons.

    In addition, you're talking about the pre-Bosman era. That ruling is most famous for free agency at the end of contracts, but it also stuck down nationality restrictions on non-EU players. A lot of leagues, La Liga and Serie A for example, allowed teams only 3 non-Spanish or non-Italian players on the field at any one time. England didn't have any written rules at that stage, but it had banned continentals entirely during the 50s/early 60s and its footballing culture was notoriously hidebound. Signing non-British players wasn't really an option at that stage.

    The SPL was the one place where English clubs would - could, actually - go to buy the finished article. Scotland's poorer than England and the non-Old Firm teams operated on budgets that would have been lower-D2 or upper-D3 in England. The attractions of Scotland in those days were a ferociously competitive league, playing a fairly similar brand of football, whose players (at Aberdeen and Dundee United in particular) were battle-tested in the later stages of European competition, and whose clubs had player sales built into their budgets. Add in cultural familiarity/compatibility and lot of Scottish managers and coaching staff already in England and "buying Scottish" was a no-brainer really.
     
  10. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SKC seems to make some weird personnel decisions annually. how much of that is on vermes? no idea.

    I thought coelho, for instance, showed very well early last season and now he's gone.(which if you look at the roster rules in MLS kinda explains it, but still weird that player like him couldnt stick in MLS...guess it reflects more on MLS overall than SKC). nemeth is another one. etc etc.

    5 years ago SKC seemed primed to be a perpetual top MLS team but they havent really lived up to that promise.

    at the same time, under Vermes, USMNT players have all faired pretty well under his guidance. EPB did lead the u20's to the title, after all (so its pretty hard to argue that playing for Vermes is some kind of detriment to EPB's development) SKC should get at least a little credit for that. also, hard to think Zusi and Besler couldve had much better USMNT careers under another MLS manager than Vermes. Dwyer and Feilhaber also both look primed to feature in upcoming USMNT lineups. (i personally, think feilhaber has found the best level of his career under Vermes).

    I thimk Vermes deserves credit for making sure the players on his teams are at or near their maximum potential....even if his teams as a whole seem to consistently underwhelm. I wonder how things would be different for him as a club manager if he wasnt so contrained by MLS salary rules/being in a small market.
     
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  11. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1087 adam tash, Mar 8, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
    well i dont disagree that EPB could be a solid MLS player right now.

    but i think EPB not playing has a lot do with SKC's unusual stockpile of good centerbacks more than anything.

    I think Opara is underrated and if he could stay healthy could easily play for USMNT and Besler obviously has proven himself as well. Last season Coelho was in front of EPB as well....I mean coelho has been capped by portugal's senior national team...the guy is not chopped liver. even ellis is a grown man and a decent player who has had some big games for SKC.

    I think MLS' lack of player freedom of movement is the real culprit not Vermes. EPB should be on an MLS team who could use him....unfortunately he is owned by perhaps the one team in MLS that he couldnt play for.

    most importantly, the case of EPB being good enough for MLS but not getting playing time is not an anomaly! all over the league, on almost every roster, I see young players that are good enough for MLS who are not getting on the field. Say what you want about MLS in the 90's and early 2000's but at least then every time a yung player showed promise they got on the field right away. I think thats part of the reason 2002 is still the best USMNT in a world cup. While MLS has gotten better in many ways...it has gotten worse at developing young players and making sure they reach their potential as soon as possible (often by getting them into a better league asap..which they dont seem interested in anymore)....and i think that is part of the reason why you are starting to see more MLS teams shift to more of a focus on playing young players this season. I think MLS is kind of internally ackowlsging that they havent doena good enough job lately of valuing their youth.

    *** side note***I would really like to see Opara on the USMNT over some players who have been called up recently like alvarado, orozco, gonzalez, marshall etc even birnbaum and hedges...i dont think opara is clearly worse than Besler even. to me, a player like opara fits in with the group of cb's who have been called up recently and perhaps may be better than some who have been called.
     
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  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Vermes has a lot of respect for having rescued and polished a lot of players. Nemeth, Oriol, Feilharber are the most notable. IMO Zusi and Dwyer would have been mishandled by many managers. The academy has been pretty good considering the size of the population.
     
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  13. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    um. you should prob watch Glad more. he is very good. now, if you used Redding for your post, it would've been factual.
     
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  14. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I agree with your point about MLS, but I think Opara is overrated. He's a fine player, but he's always injured, and while he's very good athletically, I don't look at him as this amazing player in every facet of the game who would be playing for a big club in Europe, had he not been so constantly injured. I think he's good enough to start in MLS, but with the two CB's SKC has, he should be on the bench, and used when needed so you aren't just waiting until he finds himself injured, and you need a replacement. He can be a replacement, and play less games. Regardless, even when Opara was injured, Vermes was starting Kevin Ellis instead of him. And Ellis isn't a bad player, but he's not a bad player at RB. He's 5'8.
     
  15. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Nice video, but the person who made that forgot the game saving tackle in the final against Honduras after Trusty coughed the ball up.

    Go to 1 hour, 42 minutes of this video. Very few players (let alone CB's/DM's) have the ability to cover enough ground to make that tackle.

     
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  16. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    That video missed a lot, especially that tackle. But, to be fair, you would almost have to show an every touch video to capture all the highlights. Palmer strips the ball at will.
     
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  17. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well we disagree about opara. he isnt amazing in every facet of the game....but no other american players are...and few in the world are, really. its about mixing and matching strengths and weaknesses to create the best unit. Opara is in my opinion the best jumper and header among US-eligible defenders....he could be a real weapon on set pieces on both sides of the ball....so that is where he sets himself apart. he is also exceptionally athletic....something that marshall, orozco, gonzalez etc are not.

    i was disappointed that EPB hasnt featured much yet for SKC...but as a young teenager, like I said, its tough to beat out grown men...who are also pretty good a la besler, opara, coelho, ellis - the best stable of CB's in MLS last season. All that said, i will be shocked if EPB doesnt get some good minutes this season for SKC.
     
  18. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I really appreciate your post. Thanks
     
  19. CDPontaDelgada

    CDPontaDelgada Member+

    CD Santa Clara
    Aug 15, 2012
    Ponta Delgada PT
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Portugal youth international very promising player Who will more than likely be promoted to the first squad

    Real Madrid look set to offer 30.5 million for Felipe just arrived at Porto for a meager 6 million

    Porto could be that club especially considering SKC has been scouting Portugal like Nuno Coelho and Gerso
     
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  20. CDPontaDelgada

    CDPontaDelgada Member+

    CD Santa Clara
    Aug 15, 2012
    Ponta Delgada PT
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    So I know it's not really related to this subject but it boggles my mind so many promising players you guys are producing for your national team And guys like Zusi still get call ups

    Also I personally believe the United States need to do better with players that are eligible for dual citizenship lost a lot of good players over the years like Soony Saad who I hope has a good season this year
     
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  21. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic

    Your appreciation is much, erm . . . appreciated. ;)
     
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  22. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    :x3::oops::p
     
  23. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    [​IMG]
     
  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
     
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