PBP: EPL - Manchester United FC vs Crystal Palace FC - Aug 24, 2019 [R]

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I actually respect part of your analysis at times but then you lack so much self-awareness. You just spent posts talking about the pressure Rashford was under for a PK then don't have the same sense of empathy for Pogba. Look at the help and talent around him when at Juve and when with France and then look at the drop off with our squad. Talk about pressure, he has to make it happen every time because no one else is going to. Every time he looks up he has unproven forwards, including your beloved Rashford. He doesn't need loads of world class players but I am mean a few water carriers and him not being the sole source of creative brilliance would be useful.
     
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  2. Anonymous_United

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Jul 13, 2018
    FFS enough with this rumbling.. Give PK to Martial..
     
  3. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Agreed. I get some guys are penalty specialists, but I've always been a proponent of giving your best finisher penalties. And make no mistake, Martial is our best finisher.
     
  4. Amdrag

    Amdrag Member+

    Jun 10, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You complain about scapegoating, while scapegoating Pogba, giving excuses to other players, who make up the entire squad. What in the hell...

    The rest of the squad is a made of kids, inconsistent players who have never shown anything close to Pogba's level, old legs that can't do it anymore, a pair of decents CBs and a quality GK who has been pretty bad the last dozen games or so. So the idea is that Pogba "stepping up" will make us a consistently good side, is laughable. Our squad is thin as hell. You basically want him to do it himself.

    Also Pogba getting caught late while we chase a game is weird how exactly? It's almost like he is trying to win games doing that Superman thing you seem to want from him, and then complain that he may have held the ball too long.
     
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  5. Amdrag

    Amdrag Member+

    Jun 10, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    If you could take penalties with your head, it would be Arry.
     
  6. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Taking Rashford off Pks now would be the absolute worst thing Ole could do. It's not like it was a bad miss by any measure. He was just plain unlucky.
    Rashford needs to remain as our lead Pk taker. It's that simple really.
     
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  7. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Jones can teach him how to head the ball off the ground.
     
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  8. Amdrag

    Amdrag Member+

    Jun 10, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    It amazes me how many "records" we have broken since SAF. Every match feels like we lost to a team for the first time since the days of that great player known as Busby Babes.
     
  9. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    No mate, answer my question first because you're all over the shop. Did Rashford miss because of the pressure, is what I asked. You said no. Then I asked to clarify that, if he didn't miss because of pressure, then he just missed, right? Not because of Ole. He just missed.

    If so then what you're arguing is that the very idea that we have more than one penalty taker is Ole's fault, but that the problem itself isn't causing pressure which led to Rashford missing. Right? Whether you think the added pressure of it led to Pogba missing, I don't know.

    Your original attempt to answer, above, made it sound like you think it leads to visibility of a perceived problem, rather than an actual problem. But at the same time you ask if I think it's a good idea for penalty takers to worry whether they'll be taken off penalty duty every time they step up. Which heavily implies it does lead to pressure, which leads to penalties being missed.

    We'll get to my opinion when we've sorted yours out. It's all Ole's fault. What is his fault? The two missed pens? If so, how is this one his fault, if you don't believe Rashford missed due to pressure?
     
  10. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Good luck getting Ed to pony up for a slip-n-slide.
     
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  11. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    When I say Pogba needs to step up I mean it as in he needs to play his position like he did last week. Not that he needs to perform superhuman tasks. His long balls were garbage today very early on and a smart footballer would have cut that shit out and started with the basics. He's 26. He's old enough now to know better.

    I called his performance against Wolves one of his best in a United shirt - and he did nothing heroic or fantastic. But he played as part of a team in a midfield.

    I'm not calling for any single player to be our superman. I'm calling for all our players to do the simple things right.

    Pogba just isn't a very smart player. Instead of doing the simple things right, getting the ball off his feet and playing the way he faced, he tried to Cruyff two players at midfield, got caught, and then never once showed back up in the picture while they countered and scored.

    Watch the game again (******** I don't blame you if you don't, it was an awful watch). But this time, just watch Pogba. He looks constantly tired. He's heavy on his feet. He never moves in anticipation - only ever in reaction. It's shambolic for one of the supposed 'best midfielders in the game'. And it's a character issue since he demonstrated last week that he's absolutely capable of playing that way.

    I made a stance early this summer that it didn't matter what we did or who we brought in so long as Pogba was in this midfield and I stick by that. He might come good next game. He might create two garbage time assists. He might score a cracker. But there's always a game around the corner where he will play like he did today - where he will do something utterly stupid like Cruyff turn at the halfway line with two men on him and no CM partner.

    Lo and behold it's only week 3 and Pogba has already been involved in controversy (blame him, blame Ole, at the end of the day it still centered around Pogba) and he's already cost us points because his dribbling in the middle of the park. We saw it with his first half performance against Chelsea, where we were very lucky not to be punished, we saw it today, and we will see it again.
     
  12. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    who said he was going to be pulled for a miss?

    and yes they should think they need to make everyone regardless of the situation or pressure.

    this is being blown way out of proportion. mostly as an excuse for our subpar play. we can't be relying on penalties to win games anyway
     
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  14. gatekeeper2

    gatekeeper2 Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Ultimately, we could lay this all on Ferguson for appointing Moyes, which precipitated the swirling turd this club has devolved into, but whining about the past isn’t going to get us anywhere.

    We missed on an opportunity to shore up a critically weak position, 10, this summer when we had the opportunity to do. That’s in the past too so it’s best move on, but the point here is that we cannot rely on Lingard to serve in this role except in spot situations. If Ole seems Lingard to be good enough for United we might as well concede that we’re in deep shit.

    The missed pk is really irrelevant, We created too few scoring chances and deserved to drop all three points, even if it can be persuasively argues that Palace rode a lot of luck to get the win today.
     
  15. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    I don't have the same empathy for him because Pogba is a frequent victim of his own antics. He's 26. At some point people need to realize that he's NOT the only black player in the world that changes his hair color and lives a flashy life. So why is the media/our fanbase picking on him?

    It's because of days like today. He cost too much to have more than one or two performances like this in an entire season. People talk about him being a great midfielder akin to the best in the world - and that's a load of bollocks.

    Maybe if he was a 21 year old who actually pulled himself up through our ranks, fought for and earned his time, I'd have more empathy for him. But Pogba ********ed off once for quick money and easy PT and has been MOSTLY controversy and problems since he came back. He screws with our transfer plans because quite frankly Ole/Ed had no idea if he was going to force a move. It's still a question in the air for the next window.

    Also, I'm not that impressed with his France form. He's easily out shone by Kante on a consistent basis.

    As for Juve... You put a lump of shit in a midfield with Pirlo and Vidal and it'll look great. He was a kid allowed to express himself offensively with little defensive pressure in a slower and less physical league.

    But what has he done at United besides get a manager sacked and every midfield partner either benched or been deemed surplus and allowed to leave?
     
  16. doubletrouble

    doubletrouble Member+

    Manchester United
    Saint Kitts and Nevis
    Dec 16, 2003
    St.Kitts
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    St. Kitts and Nevis
    Struggling to create chances and when we get them it's poor decision making
     
  17. gatekeeper2

    gatekeeper2 Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  18. Anonymous_United

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Jul 13, 2018
    I dont care, its the right decision and no point folding over wrong decisions and hoping it pays off..
     
  19. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course you don't care and no you have no idea if it's the right decision. The fallout of such a move would in all likelihood have severe repercussions all over the shop. And turn an unfortunate and unnecessary situation, into an absolutely terrible one.
    First, you run the risk of killing off whatever confidence Rashford had, and not just for Pks, but for his game in general. And whether one likes him or not, we need him this season. Second, it would be a terrible look for Ole, as it would paint him as undecisive and worst of all reactionary (fans get to be that way if they want to, but certainly not a coach of a sports team). Ole has done enough in regards to this situation, to make it only worst with such a move.
    Those are just 2 examples of possible fallout from that move and there would surely be others to boot as well. There is ZERO reason to remove Rashford from Pk duty at this time. Look at his effort today and if you honestly believe that it was a bad effort, that Rash succumbed under the pressure or whatever else, then there's nothing more to say. He was simply UNLUCKY and we need to keep him as the guy in that situation, until it becomes clear that he can't handle the responsibility, which we honestly have no clue at this time...
     
  20. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

    Oct 26, 2006
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Arguing about penalties...as if that's our major problem.:D
     
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  21. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  22. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    So on the club level he was allowed to play to his best. Kind of like how Ronaldo was made a forward with no defensive responsibilities when he got to Madrid and now Juve. Interesting.
     
  23. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    How was Martial not a pen and James a yellow for a legit foul. madness
     
  24. Anonymous_United

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Jul 13, 2018
    You admit in the end you have no clue and your fallout reasoning is not fallacious but still subjective. IMO it should be someone who can place it. Its just catalogue of mistakes and poor handling by management.

    Moving on i was surprised not to see Andres as we lacked width and were so narrow. Our LB LW RB were both cutting inside and then Mata came on. We have single creative outlet in midfield and without genuine width our forwards will struggle to get goals. Once again our corners and set pieces were just amateurish.
     
  25. LA. MAN UNITED

    LA. MAN UNITED Member+

    May 22, 2006
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4 points worth so far......but, yeah, we're not going to have 35 more weeks of PK nonsense.
     
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