English Abroad

Discussion in 'England' started by THOMA GOL, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
  2. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Imagine if Ravel does well in Lazio would Allardyce pick him after the West Ham saga?
     
  3. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    767042135996510208 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  4. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Jack Harrison got a goal and an assist in the last game of the regular MLS season yesterday (skip to 2:16):



    He has a very strong chance of winning the "rookie of the year" award over there.
     
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  5. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Jack Harrison has been shortlisted for "rookie of the year" in MLS, as expected, and Bradley Wright-Phillips has been shortlisted for the MVP award.
     
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  6. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Jack Harrison has been named MLS Player of the Week for this performance:

     
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  7. Ste walker

    Ste walker Member

    Dec 2, 2016
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Seems a decent player. Would of liked England u-21 to involve him in past squads. Think he'll need to move back to England to have any real chance of becoming a better player.
     
  8. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    People have long said that young English players should go abroad to get experience and I'm sure people on this forum will have noticed the incipient trend of young English players doing just that, mostly on loan. I'm posting this as a WIP tracking of the situation.

    The list of players getting England youth caps while based abroad in the last five seasons is (permanent/loan):

    16-17: Patrick Roberts, Freddie Woodman, Lewis Baker (0/3) (Scotland counts right?)
    15-16: Roberts, Lewis Baker, Nat Chalobah, Izzy Brown, Dom Solanke, Danny Collinge and Taylor Moore (2/5)
    14-15: Moore, Collinge (2/0)
    13-14: Eric Dier, Moore (2/0)
    12-13: Dier (1/0)

    There were quite a lot of players who went abroad on loan last season who didn't get capped (including Brandon Barker, Dan Crowley, Tafari Moore, Mukhtar Ali and Ashley Smith-Brown all of whom were in the Netherlands) while I think every loanee abroad got a cap in 15-16 so last season saw a slight increase in young English players abroad not a dip as the list of caps may suggest. Dier and Moore both moved abroad as kids for non footballing reasons so we've gone from nothing to something very quickly. The change has mainly been driven firstly by Chelsea and then also by Arsenal and Man City choosing to loan English players abroad.

    Young, English and previously capped players confirmed abroad for next season so far are (club/current eligability):

    Permanent: Mandela Egbo (Gladbach/U21), Jordan Rossiter (Rangers/U21), Danny Collinge (Stuttgart/U20)

    Loans: Reece Oxford (Gladbach/U20), Fankaty Dabo (Vitesse/Senior)

    The strongest rumours floating about at the moment are linking Chris Willock (Benfica/U20) and Kaylen Hinds (Wolfsburg/U20) with moving abroad on permanent deals, either deal going through would see the first young Englishman moving to the continent since Mandela Egbo and Ravel Morrison going abroad two years ago. Of potential loans, Mason Mount to Vitesse stands out as an interesting, and plausible, sounding rumour.
     
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  9. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    I've seen comments from Harrison saying he'd love to play for England but also in the process of getting U.S citizenship. MLS isn't a bad quality league these days and with the impact he's made you'd think he'd merit a place in the next under-21 group. You've gotta wonder if the FA are actually aware of him though - anyone got any contacts there to tip them off what they're missing?
     
  10. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Harrison is 5 years away from US citizenship. If he's still stuck in MLS at 25 we won't be missing out on anything.

    He's shown improvement this season but competition for the next U21s group will be fierce. Who would bump out someone like Patrick Roberts, Demarai Gray or Ademola Lookman because Harrison has been playing well in MLS?

    There's been zero talk of English clubs showing an interest in buying him. I wonder if they bother scouting MLS much these days.
     
  11. Crvena Zvezda

    Crvena Zvezda Member

    Manchester United
    England
    Apr 11, 2017
    I wouldn't put him ahead of those guys certainly but I'd say he'd merit a squad place over the likes of Harrison Chapman who are in the current under-20 set up, given that there are few other 1996 players to compete against.
     
  12. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Chapman got 15 minutes at the U20 WC and was only in the squad because Patrick Roberts and Izzy Brown were unavailable. Add in the 96s and Chapman is going to be a way down the U21 pecking order himself.
     
  13. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
  14. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    You use loads of players in an u21 cycle. I'd just be in favour of getting Harrison across to get him involved and gauge where he's at. It can't really hurt. I'm sure it'd interest English + European clubs to see him in a new setting too.
     
  15. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Over on the German thread I think they are a little concerned with a sudden influx of our kids targeted and signing for German Clubs but don't think they have much to worry about long term as I'm presuming there is only a short window of opportunity before Brexit kicks in as don't think our kids will be able to move so freely as they can at the moment.
     
  16. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    I don't think it's anything to do with Brexit. I just think our kids are undervalued when they're in this age range and smart clubs are trying to pick them up whilst they can. Just like the English clubs have done with Spanish kids over the last decade.
     
  17. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    The current situation isn't, of course. He's saying that in future English kids may not be able to move to Germany as easily as they can now because brexit may result in the end free movement. Of course restrictions would go both ways and English football currently has a lot more incomings than outgoings.

    It's entirely hypothetical but if Arsenal hadn't been able to sign Jeff Reine-Adelaide perhaps Chris Willock would have got more game time this season just gone and wouldn't have wanted to leave.
     
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  18. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yeah that's pretty much what I meant, I mean I'm no expert on this matter and not seen to much in direct rule changes with football as yet but I'm guessing it should follow the end of free movement rules that everyone else in the U.K. will have to follow therefore us leaving the EU is going to have a negative effect on our players moving abroad but equally they should in theory get more of a chance with Premier League teams, hopefully.
     
  19. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    If their FA works anything like ours in terms of who is recommended for a work permit, then players who have spent plenty of time with the national youth sides would have nothing to worry about. Brexit might also allow us to introduce England-eligible quotas to the Premier League too.
     
  20. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Even though I would like to see some kind of quota system in place for English eligible players starting games, I wouldn't get to hopeful about it I'm sad to say. Dan Ashworth was on TalkSPORT a few weeks ago, just after the U20's winning the World Cup and the question was put to him about quotas and disappointingly and surprisingly his response was to basically dismiss the idea and said we didn't need it.
     
  21. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
  22. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    If they're really only asking €10m then I think Wilshere can expect plenty of competition for his signature irrespective of his injury record.
     
  23. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I know you're right, but why should he have to move back. With English youth proving itself on the international stage and the better EPL clubs being so rich as to not need to bother with youth I hope English players move abroad rather than sit on benches or languish in the lower divisions.
     
  24. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    MLS having a summer schedule and being on a different continent are both factors that count against it. Lots of travel and jet lag will effect performances.

    Secondly there are clear question marks about the quality of the league; there are lots of suspect looking defenders, more failed MLS imports than successes. If a prospect was in League One it would be fair to say they would need to play at a higher level to get a look in for England U21 squads, MLS is in the same boat right now. Harrison could try and get a move to Holland, France or wherever if he wanted but we all know somewhere in England is much more likely. And if they spend money on him they'll probably play him (unless he joins the Man City loan farm).
     

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