England U-20 Discussions Thread (2004 born)

Discussion in 'England' started by Jenks, Apr 4, 2015.

  1. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member+

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Sending a player there on loan isn't the Eredivisie producing a player, I thought we were talking about English players here and their pathways through to the first team and potentially into the England squad?

    Recently the Championship has 'produced' John Stones who Guardiola felt fit to spend £50m on, the Championship has also helped Tammy Abraham step up to the top flight for this season.

    Realistically the only way the England squad is going to improve is to have more English players playing in the PL, or for the top clubs in Europe - the Championship is going to be a bigger help in that pathway than the Eredivisie is at the moment, because most loans to Holland seem to see that as a step into the top end of the Championship before the PL.
     
  2. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    Going further: how many world class players has the Premier League produced in the last few years?
     
  3. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    You can't have it both ways. Tammy doesn't count if the Eredivisie loanees don't. Neither of them are even close to world class in any case.

    I don't think that'll prove to be the case in the long run. Almost all of the loanees that went to the Netherlands are from Chelsea and City, who aren't giving chances to Championship loanees either. The Championship may be more "competitive" (debatable), but tactically and technically it's well behind.

    I can't think of many. Fabregas in his prime maybe? Rooney? It's not a league that's particularly conducive to development, the Championship even less so.
     
  4. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    With the state of the current England squad and the dearth of technical players at senior level I'm not sure that's the best argument.
     
  5. The problem is that given abundent available cash to buy class or top class players the incentive to put in efforts to produce your own isnot that great. The flimsy "home grown rule" only led to plundering the Dutch top academies and one must be honest the EPL didnot turn them into class players either.
    My suggestion for the FA would be to force EPL clubs to have at least 2 players that were reared from 12 year old in England/UK in any club. That would cut off spending money on foreigner kids, raiding my club and raising the levels in the UK, due to necessity. Please.
     
  6. Could the FA impose a let's say 5% education tax on the EPL tv contracts to fund academies?
     
  7. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    A shortage of money in the academy system isn't really the problem, subsidies for the grass roots and coaching courses would be a better use of an "education tax".

    Requiring two players reared in England from the age of twelve wouldn't have any effect on buying players, every Premier League club except Chelsea already meets that criteria with their first team squad. If one of their many decent English academy graduates gets kept around Chelsea would meet it too (at the expense of that player getting any meaningful playing time).

    I'd be in favour of the home grown rule being changed so players brought over from Europe at 17 wouldn't be able to qualify, however I suspect the loophole exists because the clubs pushed for it to exist. If the rule required 5 years of training in England instead of 3, or 5 years of education in addition to 3 years training, the problem would go away without the rule having to mention nationality.
     
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  8. Ah, thanks for the explanation.
     
  9. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    The academies are producing players, there are more and more talents, problem lies with their development
     
  10. Which is?
     
  11. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    Lack of opportunities in PL where managers are under pressure after a few bad results and, in my opinion, a championship that doesn't really suit young technical players. England won the WC U20 the euro 19 and the made the euro 17 final in one summer, there are undoubtedly good young players.
     
  12. Indeed there are. They could flee the country and seek "asylum" with us;)
     
  13. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    The Liverpool midfielder Herbie Kane is looking good. Sharp, quick of though - a proper player. I can see him making a breakthrough soon, and getting back into the England ranks.
     
  14. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    897186061201403904 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  15. kent paul

    kent paul Member

    Jan 2, 2004
    england
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  16. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008


    Looks like this route is the alternative -
    Signing a new contract and going on loan. He was at the Rotherham game tonight.
     
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  17. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Oh, I'd like that... I have no faith in Carvalhal's intention of ever incorporating Hirst into the first team, but I can't honestly see Carvalhal staying in the job beyond next summer, and a successful season down the road would surely put Hirst right into the picture.

    Obviously I'm biased, but it could actually be a better bet for Hirst too. If he went to Leicester, he'd probably either be playing reserve football or going out on loan to a club around Rotherham's level, and then what? Probably another loan next season. Maybe a chance the year after, or maybe another loan. I'm not sure that he'd get to the top any quicker by leaving than by staying. Then again, maybe that's just what I hope he's thinking.
     
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  18. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
  19. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    Unfortunately they were apparently "toothless up front" and got spanked 3-0. Still, better than warming the bench at Stevenage.
     
  20. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof

    Seems they will only loan him once he signs a new contract.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...ves-update-on-george-hirst-s-future-1-8707321

    Or he could go to Leicester. And spend a season in Belgium....
     
  21. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
  22. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Reece Oxford unused sub for Gladbach.
     
  23. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
  24. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I wonder if he's been injured as the app I used had him down as missing ( aka injured I presume) before the match day Squad was announced so maybe a quicker than expected recovery so no risk taken. Having said that, not sure how close he is to actually claim a Centre back slot with Ginter and Vestergaard there who are both International class.
     
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