England U-17 Discussions Thread #3 (2007 born)

Discussion in 'England' started by england66, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
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  2. W.A.S.P.

    W.A.S.P. Member+

    Leeds United
    England
    Sep 20, 2012
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Greenwood scored 2 and got an assist in that game.
     
  3. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Greenwood didn't get many chances but when he did he took full advantage. The first goal was particularly good, lashing the ball in from the tightest of angles.
    Garner further back, is in good form as well.
     
  4. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    And then there is the quick, tricky Tulloch.of West Brom.
     
  5. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    Players used in cycle so far -

    Name - Times in matchday squad (out of 9) - Games Started

    Keepers
    Arthur Okonkwo - 6 - 3
    Harry Seaden - 6 - 4
    Luca Ashby-Hammond - 6 - 2
    Marcus Dewhurst - 3 - 1

    Defenders
    Luis Binks - 9 - 8
    Vontae Campbell - 6 - 4
    Arthur Okonkwo - 6 - 3
    Ethan Laird - 3 - 3
    Dylan Crowe - 6 - 4
    Aji Alese - 3 - 2
    Max Broughton - 5 - 2
    Tareiq Shihab - 3 - 1
    *Harrison Clarke - 1 - 1

    Non-defenders who have mainly been used in defence
    Louie Sibley - 9 - 3
    Clinton Mola - 9 - 6
    Elijah Dixon-Bonner - 3 - 1
    Faustino Anjorin - 1 - 1
    *Bali Mumba - 3 - 1

    Midfielders
    James Garner - 6 - 4
    Tommy Doyle - 9 - 7
    Matty Daly - 3 - 2
    Taylor Perry - 6 - 2
    *Luis Longstaff - 3 - 1
    Sonny Hilton - 4 - 1
    *Pascal Kpohomouh - 3 - 1

    Wingers/Attackers/Versatile attacking midfielders
    Arvin Appiah - 9 - 7
    Mason Greenwood - 6 - 4
    Jack Nolan - 9 - 5
    Bukayo Saka - 6 - 5
    Xavier Ameachi - 3 - 2
    Curtis Jones - 3 - 21
    Trae Coyle - 3 - 1
    *D'Margio Wright-Phillips - 3 - 1
    *Danny Cashman - 3 - 1
    *Brennan Johnson - 3 - 1
    *Morgan Whittaker - 3 - 1
    Rayhaan Tulloch - 9 - 6

    Players used pretty exclusively as no.9
    Tyreece John-Jules - 3 - 1
    Bobby Duncan - 9 - 5

    *players not selected since August 2017 and likely out the picture.

    Tried to put players in their general groupings but there's a lot of fluidity in there. I think Saka has been used as a fullback for England + someone like Curtis Jones can play basically anywhere if he wants.

    Not sure if we'll get any/many bolters from outside this group of players used before. Looks like we won't see Paris Maghoma or Nathaneal Ogbeta. Ogunby + Simmonds at City seem like they're making some waves atm too.
     
  6. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Typo, presumably?
     
  7. Juni

    Juni Member+

    Nov 26, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Anjorin hasn't played in defence for England this season, he's been an 8 or 10 as he has at Chelsea. Jody Morris called him arguably the best finisher in his squad a coupla months ago and his best assets are definitely at that end of the pitch.
     
  8. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    Yeah, sorry it's 1. Either that or the 'Future England Star' multiplier has been added automatically.
     
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  9. kbarrett2316

    kbarrett2316 Member

    Feb 20, 2016
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Folarin Balogun is the third-highest scoring 2001 born (behind Anthony Gordon and Mason Greenwood) in the U18 PL this season. He can play on the wings if necessary but has spent the majority of the season as a #9, perhaps an outside shout for the squad? Especially with Duncan's lack of game time.

    Ogunby and Simmonds have also been impressive for City, as JRSG mentioned. Attack is probably the strongest area in the squad and it's possible that the bulk of it will consist of Arsenal-based players. Nothing against Duncan of course but I would rather someone like Balogun or TJJ who's played this season, feels quite unfair imo if he goes to the Euros without playing any games domestically.

    What would everyone's personal choice be for the whole squad?
     
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  10. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yeah, I do agree re: Duncan, really don't get how you can get selected when you're not playing regular football when it comes to this level. Not sure what message it sends out to other lads who are doing all they can to get into the Squad and scoring goals but getting overlooked by someone who isn't playing. They really ought to also have an eye open for Dual National players like Balogun who we risk losing from an early age if we have a 'closed shop' so to speak which is what it feels like if guys are getting selected without playing competitive football.
     
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  11. kbarrett2316

    kbarrett2316 Member

    Feb 20, 2016
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Balogun, as well as being eligible for Nigeria is also eligible for USA as well I believe, and they've picked up a few players based in England in recent seasons - Owen Otasowie, Brandon Austin off the top of my head.
     
  12. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    I dunno if using 38 players across 9 games suggests there's a closed shop.

    I'm glad they're handling Bobby Duncan like this to be honest. He's been screwed over by City and they're keeping him involved. Imagine if they just abandoned him for the year and left him completely in the wilderness, that'd be much worse for his development. I'm glad they're not doubling down on his difficult situation.

    People said similar things about Solanke, but it was completely reasonable for England to keep him in the squad for the U20 WC.
     
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  13. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Genuine question, what's the the story about why he left City and how did they screwed him over? I just presumed he left as didn't want to sign a contract and is basically waiting to sign for Liverpool once their transfer ban has ended?

    Yeah remember the Solanke issue also which proved a good choice but at U20 level he had already been though all the age groups and his record was pretty good, especially at U17 level. All I'm saying is at this pretty early development level isn't it probably better to keep all options open. Sure we can keep Duncan in the Squad as an unofficial member like some keepers are from time to time to make sure he knows he's part of the plans etc and will be back in as soon as he's back playing again but just not sure picking him or anyone else for that matter, that's not got a Club is a good morale booster for other kids trying there hardest to get into the Squad and seeing a player selected that hasn't played I would have thought be pretty demoralising. I understand it's a tough call for the Coaching staff and I'm sure an unusual situation at this level. Having said that I'm not that up to date with this age group so maybe there isn't anyone else who is taking the opportunity to challenge Duncan for his place?
     
  14. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    Well they screwed him over by shelving him unless he signed a new contract and putting him in that bind. Then when they knew he wasn't signing a new deal, they want the tribunal money so he's held in limbo for 12 months. Basically the same with Hirst, Solanke, Sancho and many more and a problem that probably needs addressing as it becomes more and more common.

    They're keeping their options open, but Duncan has always been in the group and they're presumably big fans of his as a player, aside from any personal situation. I doubt his peers are demoralised or particularly care, they probably know Duncan is talented and are used to there being huge competitions for places at every England level.

    Of course there's competition, loads of the forwards can play centrally. Then there's Ogunby, Simmonds + Balogun to throw into the mix from outside. Only Balogun is more of a true no.9 than the other two but most strikers nowadays can play across the front line.

    Duncan has also benefited from always being available. The list I compiled earlier shows how many players have been used and many times that'd been because players have been withdrawn or had club commitments. Who knows if Duncan is even guaranteed a spot when the full 40 players are available for selection. If the coaches don't see him as one of their 18, they won't pick him, I don't think his selection is guaranteed because of some sense of pity for him. I just think instantly ruling him out when he's in this tricky club situation isn't wise either.
     
  15. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    I'd be interested to see who people would have in their squads though as of today.

    Definites
    Two Keepers (don't have a strong opinion on any of them yet really)
    Laird (D) - Binks (D) - Alese (D) - Crowe (D)
    Garner (M) - Doyle (M)
    Jones (M/A)
    Greenwood (A)

    So there's 8 spots available.

    Amaechi (M/A)
    John-Jules (A)
    Saka (A)
    Campbell (D)
    Mola (D/M)
    Appiah (A) or Tulloch (A)
    Duncan (A)
    Anjorin (M)

    That's a mix of what I want and what I think. I considered Nolan/Daly + Coyle in Appiah/Tulloch's spot, but I think they might be worried about the side being a bit narrow so will go for Appiah + Tulloch's ability to play wide and in multiple positions. There's a lot of close calls though and it's really tough to predict with the way they've used players in defence in the last 12 months. I worry about the left back position. Especially if they end up facing Embalo.
     
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  16. kbarrett2316

    kbarrett2316 Member

    Feb 20, 2016
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Agreed, there's no real natural LB. Either Mola, Binks or Laird will probably end up filling in. Or even Saka, presumably as that's where England often have played him. Derby's Louie Sibley has also played there but I don't think he's a natural LB either. It's actually quite a tough task selecting an 18 man squad, especially with the attacking options available.

    For goalkeepers, personally I'd go with Okonkwo and Ashby-Hammond, based on what I've seen and they usually play against higher quality opposition than Dewhurst and Seaden.

    Alese, Binks, Laird, Daley-Campbell and Crowe in defence. Again there's no natural LB so I'd assume one of Binks, Laird, Mola or even Saka will fill in there.

    Doyle, Garner, Anjorin and Mola as midfielders.

    Greenwood, Jones, Saka, Amaechi, Coyle, Tulloch, and one of Balogun/TJJ as the attack options.

    That leaves out Appiah, Nolan, Perry, Shihab, Daly, Duncan, Dixon-Bonner and Sibley, amongst a few others. Even players like Anthony Gordon who haven't had any international representation (can't remember off the top of my head if he was at a 15s camp).
     
  17. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    How many has Balogun scored? More than Jones? I'd take Duncan over that pair. There is no "probably" about it when it comes to the strongest part of the team.
     
  18. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    As I have suggested a number of times before Amaechi and Saka should be definites. I'm no fan of Dixon-Bonner but he will probably get ahead of some of the others in contention.
     
  19. kbarrett2316

    kbarrett2316 Member

    Feb 20, 2016
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nine times in the league, once in the league cup, twice in the FA Youth Cup - a total of 12 goals in 19 appearances (18 starts).
     
  20. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    what would your squad be?
     
  21. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    The thing about persisting with players that are having contract wrangles and not playing is that when it comes to competitive games they look well of the pace. Look at Hirst for the U19’s. He was way off the pace.
     
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  22. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't have a list of players that I have a firm positive view on to cut it down to a squad of 18 but I can name what I think are, to me, my first choice to start. I'd like to see the three key players, Greenwood up front, and Amaechi and Jones behind and with Tulloch making up the three, with Saka to be used as a regular "super sub". Further back in midfield Garner plus one of the others (say Bonner or Doyle). In defence Laird. Mola could fill in at left back. And the other two positions no real preferences. Plus a keeper, making up the eleven.
     
  23. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I saw Simmonds a few times for City in the earlier part of the season and he impressed then and looked like a serious contender for England.
     
  24. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I saw Simmons today against Man U in City's 2-1 defeat and if any England scouts were watching they would have been most unimpressed. He was eventually subbed. Most of those eligible for England u17s were, at best, nondescript.

    Even Greenwood, who showed some quality bits of play, was repeatedly shooting tamely and was taken off with about 25 minutes from the end.

    Laird played at centre back again.
     
  25. Juni

    Juni Member+

    Nov 26, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Anjorin got a goal and two assists for Chelsea today, 7 goals and 8 assists for the season, and he's looking more and more like a decisive attacking midfielder every week.
     

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