So now that Hyndman has been utterly exposed by a competent team, can we put a damper on the calls for him to start for the national team?
As Emo's #1 fanboy.....unfortunately I have to agree with you. It's the only damper on any otherwise very succesful loan. Gold Cup and then Sept/Oct WCQ once Bruce gets us back on track.
Again, as the Gers/Celtic clashes this year have shown, Gers are just not quite there yet (or, perhaps more accurately Celtic is truly in a "different league" than the rest of the SPL.) The US in not, for the most part, no in a "different league" than the National Team competition, for the most part. Does that mean EH can compete/contribute with the Sr. men's team? I really don't claim to know. Gold Cup makes sense as a place to see how a better team around him affects his play. But yeah, being one of the best players on this Gers team is not the same as being one of the best players on many of the very decent Gers teams of the past, where that would mean you were for sure a Reyna/Beasley/Boca level player.
"Utterly exposed" is a bit harsh. If Rangers could have started a fully-fit Christiano Ronaldo behind/off Kenny Miller it wouldn't have made much difference. Celtic are a good squad, only just below EPL level, with a pretty successful coach who's been in charge all season. On their day they can give top CL teams a game. They found their groove months ago. Rangers, on the other hand have a squad that would struggle to get out of League 1 and their newly-arrived coach is . . . well, let's say "unproven" in Europe and trying to impose his authority. Emo's a good player, but there's a limit to what you could expect one player to do if the team doesn't know what it's (supposed to be) doing.
Is Hyndman good enough to compete for a role at Bournemouth next season? would he mostly be a super-sub/riding the bench a lot?
I only saw the first half (sorta - kinda half watching). Had no desire to watch the second. I thought most all Rangers players looked like that. They were godawful. ETA: This is not to excuse Emo or disagree with your assessment. He definitely looked overmatched physically.
Much as I hate to write this, it really is important to put this year's Celtic team in context. they have lost 0 SPL games this season. Not year. Season. They have stumbled into a few silly ties and still have a +69 GD. +69. Two silly SPL ties in the last month, in fact, but they have also held their own ok with some pretty decent teams outside of SPL. Barca have owned them, but they tied Man City twice and BMG once. This is not to suggest Celtic is some world beater, but if they can tie Man City twice, it's hard to argue at least their starting 11 aren't EPL competitve. And Gers is not EPL competitive this year, even at the lower rungs. Which, again, does not prove anything one way or the other with Emo, but he is not the only player in Scotland not able to make an effective dent against Celtic this eyar.
They make Bayern dominance of the Bundesliga seem weak by comparison. Heck, FC Hollywood has managed to lose _twice_ in the season, and their GD is only +62.
No denying Celtics dominance, very impressive. Re: Emo vs Celtic. The point is that in 3 Old Firm games it was a measuring stick to see if he could, at minimum, hold his own. And he didn't.
Hard as it may be to believe, I actually did get the point. My point was to make sure that folks who might not be as aware of the historic imbalance in the SPL this year were judging in context. While you can't exactly compare Celtic's midfield with BM or Chelsea or even Feynie/Ajax/PSV (who have lost 5, 2, 3, 3, and 2 league games respectively and all of whom, save Chelsea, have a 40+ GD) but you also wouldn't write off a 19/20 year old kid if playing for AZ just 'cause they couldn't crack Feynoord. I think it's pretty clear that there is enough information to know that we need more information. The only way to see if EH can contribute to the US set-up is to put him in and see how he plays. I wouldn't never suggest throwing him into a meaningful game based on this season, but I think it would be silly to determine he could not contribute based solely on the OF games.
I'm sorry Wixy, but I think that title might be mine now. After second viewing, I thought he had a decent game with a couple of miscues. He covered a lot of ground, did a lot of defensive work (often tracking multiple attackers and switching back and for), and continuously showed for the ball. This game was played at a very high pace, Celtic is significantly better team, Rangers midfielders and defenders often ignored Hyndman when showing for the ball and banged balls forward or dribbled forward themselves, but Hyndman wasn't "absent" from the play for any stretch that he was on the field. I thought he had more of a positive impact than either Holt or Windass and most importantly his performance was better than last week, which was better than when they played Celtic a month ago. He needs to cut out the mistakes, but he is clearly improving. He had a couple uncharacteristic heavy touches and wayward passes, but reacted immediately to doing the defensive work. Key moments (a may have missed one or two and left out plays where he just chases defensively): 0:45 dives in from poor angle and gets nothing 3:50 receives ball well, turns and makes poor pass turning ball over, chases ball after pass, slides in and commits foul (looks to get ball, but does go through player... unfortunately no replay) 7:35 connects on simple one touch pass into Miller 11:40 helps out and pokes ball away from attacker just outside box that leads to counter 14:15 plays one time ball over top to waghorn but dodoo offside on pass to him 15:40 receives ball, turns and has pass intercepted 17:00 poor touch that leads to 2nd goal (announcer calls it a goalkeeping error... a little strong but shot was savable) 25:45 chests ball down, turns, and over hits ball over the top 29:30 plays one, two off thrown in, turns and plays to Millers chest (maybe should have been on the ground) 31:20 defender dribbling out of back takes heavy touch, Hyndman gets to ball and lifts ball over his challenge, cuts into middle and almost plays Miller in on goal 33:15 decent touch on tough ball but too far away and loses possession 35:35 pokes ball away and plays around second defender, challenge results in rangers throw 36:25 challenges for ball 35-40 yards out and commits foul 38:00. Challenges for ball, switches to receiver of pass, tracks back, one of two or three rangers defenders who win ball back in box 20+ seconds later 40:40 receives ball, plays simple ball wide, makes run, long ball by rangers back gives Celtic possession 45:00 +0:25 one touches throw in back to thrower 45:55 dives in at midfield and commits tactical foul on counter, but advantage played that leads to shot on goal 47:30 makes run into box but throw in too far 50:20 defending near midfield, player passes to open teammate 5-10 yards away... Hyndman switches to other attacker and slides to give up throw in 50:55 pressures sinclair at midfield and forces him to play backwards 51:40 holt turn ball over, EH slides in at midfield but doesn't get foot on pass (turns into goal 3) 54:35 wins 60/40 header out for throw in (weak attempt) 56:00. Pulled Shows for ball but doesn't receive it many times. He may not have been the best option every time, but many times he was. EH is a player that excels when he can get on the ball a lot, so it Harder for him to make an impact when he is bypassed and forced to chase the game. 3:00/3:10, 15:55, 31:10, 40:00, 42:55, 50:00, 51:25
Ratings... on average EH 4.75, JW 4.5, JH 4.25. Those numbers seem about fair, but from post above, it is clear I think the comments on Hyndman are a bit harsh. http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/798199/Rangers-player-ratings-Celtic-sportgalleries CM - Josh Windass: 4 - Ineffective. Target for the fans’ abuse CM - Jason Holt: 3 - Dropped far too deep. Swamped by Celtic midfielders CM - Emerson Hyndman: 5 - Struggled to make an impact without the ball http://www.footballinsider247.com/rangers-player-ratings-v-celtic/ Josh Windass 4 – Poor showing from the midfielder in the centre of the park. A bit fortunate to escape a red card in the first half after two reckless challenges. Seemed more intent on fouling the Celtic players than contributing for his side. Jason Holt 4 – Barely noticeable against Celtic. Needed to step up to the challenge of playing in such an occasion, but instead he disappeared alongside his fellow midfielders. Emerson Hyndman 4 – A lacklustre display from the midfielder. Didn’t look up to the task of playing in an Old Firm derby and was one of many to hide away. http://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/sport/five-star-celtic-humiliate-rangers-ibrox/#.WQYbu1QpCfB Josh Windass 5, Jason Holt 5, Emerson Hyndman 5 https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/pipe/sport/rangers-v-celtic-player-ratings/ JOSH WINDASS: Returned to the line-up and had some good early touches including an effort from distance, but soon drifted out of the picture. 5. JASON HOLT: Worked hard enough to stem the Celtic tide but found it all a struggle. 5. EMERSON HYNDMAN: Robbed by Stuart Armstrong for Celtic’s second goal. Looked out of his depth at times as the play flowed around him. 5
Anyone that watches that game twice, automatically takes the Emo fanclub President title......... ...... for the meantime...... ☺
Hyndman wasn't "utterly exposed". He held his own with little help from his other midfielders and had a few heavy touches/wayward passes. There is nothing that he did wrong that other US midfielders don't do. Bradleys giveaway in a similar spot last week was more egregious. http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/ma...ronto-fc-vs-chicago-fire/details/video/101056 He didn't coast at any point which Nagbe has a tendency to do. I don't recall Lletget ever playing against a similarl quality side in his time in Europe. None of these guys face teams that they are completely outmatched against with midfield partners as poor as Holt and Windass. To exclude him from national team consideration because he put himself in situation with challenges beyond anything the MLS guys face is completely unfair. I'm not sure who is calling for him to start so don't see the need to put a damper on it. I don't think there is any way of knowing whether he should start in our midfield which is why I continue to argue that he should be called into camp to compete in practice. If out plays his competition, he should get minutes. Seems like a reasonable approach. Give him Lletgets spot on the roster and see what happens. If Bradley, Jones, and Nagbe are at their best then he isn't likely to get on the field, but if passive Nagbe shows up, he might be a better option or might a good 70 minute sub against Trinidad and trying to kill off the game.
Technically I just paid attention to Hyndman and not so much the game. It unfortunate they gave up that stupid PK 5 mins as the game might have gone a little better for Rangers and Hyndman if they weren't put the back foot basically from the start. It felt like time well spent as it proved to me he wasn't as poor as many were saying.
I don't want to turn this into MLS vs SPL as that never goes well. Someone always gets offended. But two of our NT midfield starters in our last qualifiers currently play for an LAG who sits only above Colorado in the MLS west, couldn't even score a goal against an atrocious Philly side(with another of our NTers), and themselves would get absolutely smoked by Celtic. Yeah Lletget is out injured but the point is when looking at our player pool, we call in a number who are on equally or worse teams than Rangers. Arena very well might call in Zardes who's doing nothing for one of MLS' worst. So you extrapolate the individual talent from the club/team situation as some of any NT roster we put together includes players playing for poor teams in any global context. So maybe we do pump the brakes on Emo should start, given Nagbe/Fabian are likely his direct competition with Pulisic sitting in front, but I still put him directly in the next tier of players who should compete for the alternatives behind them at mid, especially when those alternatives are a fit Lletget and Bedoya, both again playing for teams who'd get run out of the stadium by Celtic. BTW, if we're going with club pedigree, Arriola is severely underrated, regularly starting for Liga MX's current #1 club. I'd also say Emo has generally shown his level is above this current Rangers. Is it Bournemouth level? We'll find out in a few months. Or he could end up any number of places this summer. I'd love to see a loan to the continent, France or Portugal. Maybe there's even a bund situation which would fit him.
I very much dislike the pedigree arguments or using it to select players. It usually gets someone labeled as a eurosnob, but I'm finding the overly loyal MLS fans tend be more guilty of this. I believe in just picking the best players that will help the team. The challenge is we have so many players that seem to be of similar talent playing in so many different environments. It seems prudent to just call a bunch of players in and look at all the players in the same environment. I'd think a loan to any of those places would be a good opportunity for him at this point. Apparently, playing in MLS is the best and easiest path to the national team, but I don't think that would be the best for his career at the point.
Lots of words to defend a guy who hasn't done anything of note against any decent team in his entire career. The hype train needs to slow down a bit. Last month he was being tattooed into the US lineup as the starting CM. He isn't at that level yet. Let's see if he can establish himself next season. There's nothing more to learn or discuss from this Rangers stint.
Plenty of guys who have been in recently haven't done anything of note against any decent team either. It's about talent and potential and not accomplishments. He'd have been a multiple year starter if he has stayed in Dallas and poor Acosta would probably still be playing right back. I don't think we have a midfielder not named Pulisic that doesn't have questions about their game. There is no way of knowing if Hyndman is our 3rd best, 6th bets, or 9th best central midfielder and I haven't seen Lletget do anything to make me think he is a better option.
I think it's more likely Gruezo wouldn't be there if that was the case. I'm not sure Hyndman is better than Acosta(he's not, imo, but I like them both).
I, for one, am tired of arguing in favor of Emo for the NT. If I did so before, it was because I feel he will be a midfield anchor in the future and I wanted to start seeing him integrated before the 2018 WC. God knows our midfield needs help from somewhere. As it stands, I am content to quietly watch Emo build a case for himself until it becomes self-evident that he is starter material for the USMNT.
I see this more as people throwing specious arguments back in the face of their originators. Fighting hypocrisy with hypocrisy.
Ok, I have to agree with the poster. He was utterly exposed and it was not pretty. He needs to do better. Arena will never call him up with this form!
I personally don't care where a player plays(the bane of every Big Soccer argument) I more care how a player plays. I love the way Emo plays the game. I realize he is not yet a complete player but I see nothing in him that states he should not be considered for the Gold Cup. I am hopeful that he gets that chance and takes it well.