Eliminatorias a RUSIA 2018

Discussion in 'CONMEBOL' started by Gerlestat, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Al final, el partido acabó 6-0 y se cumplieron las expectativas. Hoy, algunos de los futbolistas que jugaron niegan por completo que hubiera sobornos, pese a que siempre ha sido un partido bajo sospecha. Si uno ve el partido detenidamente, porque hay vídeos, se puede dar cuenta de que no hubo nada extraño El argentino Leopoldo Jacinto Luque, que en aquel encuentro marcó dos goles, no se lo cree. "No vimos nada raro. Un jugador se daría cuenta si un rival fuera para atrás. Si uno ve el partido detenidamente, porque hay vídeos, se puede dar cuenta de que no hubo nada extraño. Los futbolistas no son actores", señaló. "Aún hoy, cuando a varios de nosotros nos invitan para dar charlas en distintos lugares del país, nos preguntan por ese partido. Yo me río, pero me duele. Y siempre sale a la palestra alguno que tiene algo para decir y a lo mejor ni siquiera vio el encuentro", añadió. También los ex mundialistas peruanos lo han negado, como era de esperar. Como Héctor Chumpitaz: "Pongo las manos en el fuego por mi equipo, voy a hablar con mis compañeros para emitir un comunicado y expresar nuestro enojo. Yo capitaneaba ese equipo y hubiese sido el primero en enterarme", aseguró. Jaime Duarte, otro de los futbolistas andinos del partido, comenta que "cómo le van a hacer caso a un delincuente que sólo quiere vender su libro, son estupideces". Por último habla José Velázquez: "A los jugadores no llegó absolutamente nada. Si fuera así, no estaríamos pasando penurias". ¿Qué pruebas da el escritor? En realidad ninguna, sólo su testimonio, por lo que puede ser pura fantasía. Quizá Rodríguez Mondragón escuchara aquella conversación realmente y tan sólo fuera una bravuconada porque en su día hubo muchas especulaciones de aquel 6-0 donde Argentina barrió a los peruanos, una selección inferior de todas formas. "De primera mano supimos cómo fue lo del partido Argentina-Perú. Mi tío Miguel habló con un grande del fútbol mundial y le confesó lo del dinero que hubo para arreglar ese partido y sacar a Brasil de la final", sostuvo el martes Rodríguez Mondragón en una entrevista radiofónica.

    Ver más en: http://www.20minutos.es/deportes/noticia/mundial78-argentina-peru-317661/0/#xtor=AD-15&xts=467263
     
  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Este con..., jeje

    Argentina tenía muy buen equipo, como que gano la final claramente.

    Además, Brasil le ganó a Perú con goles de pelota parada, ese partido fue mas parejo de lo que muchos creen.
     
  3. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    This is not an average question
     
  4. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  5. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    pepinointer repped this.
  6. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Y que los protagonistas lo han negado, los videos tampoco prueban nada. Rumores infundados

    Mas pruebas hay del "pacto de lima" entonces el chiste se cuenta solo.
     
  7. BlueDamian

    BlueDamian Member+

    Jun 7, 2005
    In the shade
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Videla and Henry Kissinger going to Peru's dressing room before the match is certainly weird.
     
  8. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    cuantos muertos puede tener Kissinger encima?

    de todas formas muy sospechoso todo lo de argentina 78' eso es todo..
     
  9. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #2159 Rickdog, Nov 21, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    En tiempo suplementario, tras haber empatado a 1, en los 90 minutos.
    Y eso, sin considerar que el equipo argentino salió al campo de juego con un retraso de más de 5 minutos, lo que permitió al público argentino gritarles cuanta cosa quisieron a los jugadores holandeses que estaban formados en el terreno de juego. Además antes de empezar el partido, los argentinos hicieron todo un show sobre el vendaje que tenía un jugador holandés, que hasta ese momento nadie había dicho nada en los partidos previos, cosa que dilató aun más el inicio del partido generando reacciones de total rechazo por la fanaticada argentina hacia los holandeses. Como estos amenazaron con retirarse e incluso perder la final por abandono, el juez italiano optó por exigir que se refuerze el vendaje del jugador y hacer como si no hubiera pasado nada y empezo el partido.

    just a reminder, that if they don't let Argentina win big (at the time, as it was the last match of the group, played many hours after Brazil's last match, they already knew how much goals were needed to get to the finals) , what can happen in name of the southamerican "brotherhood" to any of them, considering the fact that Videla's government (Argentina), strongly supported by Kissinger, was doing a favour to Bermudez government (Peru), by having at the time, detained in Argentina, Mr. Genaro Ledesma and others in the "Plan Condor affaire", a former peruvian leftist congressman, whom was one of the main figures that oposed dictator Bermudez.

    That, together with the "gift" of one container full of wheat, that Argentina gave to Peru, did the deal.

    It was not for nothing that the Netherlands players, also refused to take part and receive the medals, in the final ceremony.

    ....... politics, :sick::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::sick::thumbsdown:
     
  10. BlueDamian

    BlueDamian Member+

    Jun 7, 2005
    In the shade
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    By chance I happened to watched this video not so long ago where Ardiles and Kerkhof discuss this incident.
     
  11. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Oh, no! A WC host nation making good use of their home-field advantage... the horror, what audacity! Such cheapskates!
     
  12. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Call it home-field advantage all you want, but nowdays home FA's get punished with the payment of huge fines by the same FIFA, for doing this sort of crap. Also a reason why, teams must enter the pitch together, now (or haven't you noticed it ?).
     
  13. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    We would look like proper losers if S.American teams fail to even make it out of their groups. What would that say of the teams that fail to even qualify. o_O
     
  14. pipinogol

    pipinogol Member+

    May 20, 2016
    Club:
    Cary RailHawks U23
    People from the country of condor Rojas talking highly about fair play, ok :eek:

    Also always everyone forgets that Peru missed two huge chances at the start of that game (one even hits the post), why did they bother to do that if they were planning to lose by over 4 goals??
     
  15. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Its not worth having the discussion... people haven't actually seen the match. Which is full and available on youtube.
     
  16. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    But that wasn't in effect back in 1978 so it's irrelevant.
     
  17. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #2167 Rickdog, Nov 27, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
    The fact it wasn't in effect in 1978, doesn't mean it is irrelevant.

    On the contrary, the fact new rules were needed and created to preciselly avoid it from ever happening again, makes it completely relevant.

    If nothing like that would have happened at that time, FIFA would have probably never created rules forcing both teams to take the pitch together, as it is done now at present times.

    Btw, it's not for nothing that FIFA now, doesn't allow anyone diferent from the same team staff, to enter and go see players inside their locker room, in advance or even after a match gets played. Videla's with Kissinger's visit to the peruvian team, with few minutes in advance of their vital last match during that same WC, was the last time something like that, ever again, happened.
     
  18. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    that happens because we chileans are not all, the same as Condor Rojas.

    condor Rojas was a cheater, and we all condemned him after we all knew what happened when he did his cheat. Not for nothing that his life in Chile after everyone knew what happened in that incident, became unbearable which somehow forced him to leave the country never returning back (on an own call) and settled somewhere else, where he lived till his last days and finally died (curiously, he passed the rest of his days in Brazil).

    We chileans, when in face of the facts, we condemn those cheats even stronger than how most people do, because instead of making us proud of them, we feel deeply embarrased and to certain extent, also cheated by our own.

    Sure, no one is saying that the whole peruvian team played to lose. In a match at that level, you only need 1,2 or maybe 3 elements (coach, players or even the referee) performing at lower level than usual, to get the "job" done.

    Very likely, some of their players wanted to win and tried their best to do so.
     
  19. pipinogol

    pipinogol Member+

    May 20, 2016
    Club:
    Cary RailHawks U23
    Rojas incident is absolutely proven and even confessed by the protagonist, so condemnation is only logical. For Argentina-Peru we only have contradictory statements and rumors of political influence that seem like grasping at straws
     
  20. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Sure.

    But , still highly suspicious. Which actually is what everyone here is actually saying.

    While, you ( @pipinogol ) want to somehow dicredit it all, basicly based on some of the posters nationality (particularly mine), presenting it as if what is being discusssed, has some sort of resemblence to another case that has no relationship to what is being debated here. That's your fault, not mine.
    .
    .

    Now regarding to the things that happened afterwards at the 1978 WC final match, everything I wrote that happened (the fact I am chilean or not doesn't change nothing what I said), actually did happen.
     
  21. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    condos rojas is still alive isn't he?
     
  22. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You are completely incorrect to suggest that only Argentina would use this tricks back then, it was commonplace watching on TV or going to a stadium to see the home team delay their entrances all through the 80s. If anything, I suspect it was pressure from TV channels and sponsors that made FIFA impose this rule. It's for the better, but don't suggest that it was done because of one match, no matter how important it was.
     
  23. locotl

    locotl Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    florida
    Time to close this thread..... WCQ for Russia are long gone
     
  24. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    I'm not going to bother going back a few pages to see why a thread on the 2018 World Cup qualifying tournament for CONMEBOL turned into a discussion about the possibility that Argentina somehow cheated to defeat Peru 6-0 in 1978 after Brazil had beaten Peru 3-1 - although I thought it was quite shady for the game times to be changed (Brazil vs. Peru was moved to an earlier time) given they were supposed to start at the same time. I likewise find it very odd that General Videla went to the locker room to engage in some friendly banter with the Peruvians with Henry Kissinger.

    (And by this I do not mean Menotti or his players, but rather, either AFA or the military junta that ruled at that time.)

    I have my own views on this, and while I expect Argentines to steadfastly deny any wrongdoing (although on some Argentine newspaper forums, I've seen some posters say it was all "arreglado"), there's really no point bickering back and forth. Just as there was no point for some fans of whatever nationalities to bicker about a possible "fix" for Brazil in 2002 (because we had an accessible group stage). Now, 39 years after that tournament, unless absolute evidence surfaces to the point FIFA rescinds Argentina's win of that competition, there's not much of a point. (And this from a Brazilian who isn't too reluctant to admit he believes at times Argentine soccer has demonstrated questionable sportsmanship.)

    We all have our biases and that is quite unlikely to change.

    Having said that, for a 3rd opinion (not necessarily unbiased, but certainly insightful), I invite all of you to read this blog I encountered in the early 2000s. I'm glad it's still up and running after at least 15 years since I first encountered it.

    The Englishman who authored it goes into incredible detail, minutely chronicling the Oranje of 1974 and of 1978. He compares both finals, and while he is unashamedly pro-Netherlands, he gives credit to both the West Germans and to the Argentines. Your conclusions may differ from his, but he has done a huge service to all of us who truly do love the sport and who wish to learn more about World Cup history.

    See you all on Friday for and after the 2018 World Cup draw.
     
  25. pipinogol

    pipinogol Member+

    May 20, 2016
    Club:
    Cary RailHawks U23
    pfff "insightful", you just like it because it's plainly anti-argentinian.

    The guy's recollection of the final is frankly absurd at some points... the most laughable is when he suggests the final shot to the post in regular time didn't go in due to the "debris" in the pitch (are papelitos/little pieces of papers cut from newspapers really capable of deflecting a freakin football???) and when he says that "everyone" saw a handball in the 3rd goal (difficult to tell with the footage quality at the time) except the referee and that he ignored the dutch protests (if by protests he means one dutch player timidly raising his hand to ask for something to inmediately lower it).

    btw he also suggests the argentinian team wouldn't have advanced from the groups stages if the wc would have been held in other country, ******** off!.

    Now, about people that comment in newspapers forums... yes, some people like to believe in conspiracy. In Argentina some people also believe for example that former president Néstor Kirchner was shot dead by his son and that's why his funeral was with closed casket...
     

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