Eliminatorias a RUSIA 2018

Discussion in 'CONMEBOL' started by Gerlestat, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. dapip

    dapip BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Country:
    Colombia
    Imagen de chile llamando al TAS

    [​IMG]
     
  2. locotl

    locotl Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    florida
    Wow tremenda imaginacion estas viendo muchas novelas.....
     
  3. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Es el reglamento.
    (algo que al parecer, muchos desconocen......, sobretodo cuando no les conviene)
     
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  4. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Country:
    Colombia
    Sorry por Los Peruanos pero that's great news for us Atletico Junior fans. :ninja:
     
  5. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    apparently FPF and Paolo were only notified yesterday, why it took so long I dont know

    all I know is that the time has come for Jefferson Farfan to lead us back to a World Cup...hopefully he gets through the Moscow derby in one piece otherwise...The time has come for Raul Ruidiaz to lead us back to a WC
     
  6. locotl

    locotl Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    florida
    Excepto que lo que escribes son "supuestos" y no hechos concretos. A llorar al rio con tus novelas
     
  7. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    #2082 Rickdog, Nov 4, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
    Lo único "supuesto" que escribí, y así lo hice saber desde un principio es lo relacionado al momento (tiempo o día en que se produjo) de la notificación del hallasgo, lo que como se maneja a nivel privado en primera instancia, por lo que no hay forma de saber con exactitud al respecto. Todo lo demás, al respecto, no es invención, pues está perfectamente descrito en el reglamento respectivo.

    Nope, not necessarily.

    What has been made to public knowledge (beyond whatever was kept private), was the initial sanction that affects Guerrero, due to this fiasco, as there is no way to keep in secrecy a provisional 30 days ban from taking part in any international competition. Players don't get banned for nothing, as there must be something that justifies the procedure taken against them.

    We don't have any certainty if there was, or if there has been any private messages before, related to this issue, between the parts involved.
     
  8. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    #2083 condor11, Nov 4, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
    the known timeline is that they were notified Thursday night and news leaked Friday morning

    some reporters even knew Thursday night. Given how quickly news leaked I highly doubt fpf or Guerrero could have kept a lid on it if he was notified prior to Colombia game. Also behaviours around Peru training today imply they had no clue till yesterday

    He has been provisionally banned for 30 days till the second sample is tested (i assume this will take place after playoff games anyway). Furthermore the provisional ban appears to have came in Friday afternoon.


    Chemo del Solar has said he had same substance found in his system and still does not know how he got it. He had to get a hair sample test done to prove he was not a habitual user and was given a decreased 6 month ban
     
  9. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Bogota DC.
    Club:
    America de Cali
    thanks for clarifying that man! lol
     
  10. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    #2085 Rickdog, Nov 4, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
    That's what the peruvian federation publicly says, because that is what is convenient to say for their cause. To say they knew anything of this case was known before, would be to admit their guilt in playing with an uneligible player.

    The substance found for both Guerrero now, and Chemo del solar, is highly related to cocaine. Not proof of direct consumption, but if it appears in their samples, its their responsability to prove how it got there in the first place, as cocaine, isn't used regularly in pharmaceutics and of course in any accepted drug for therapeutic use in athletes.

    Usually, at FIFA, this type of cases are dealt with, at an individual level (only affects players).

    Usually the results of sample testing for doping tests, are very fast (has to be, as when there is a competition taking place, its results can affect the rest of the competition). There is nothing that justifies taking almost a month long - time, to do anything, related to any findings (remember that Guerrero's sample was from the match against Argentina, so there was plenty of time to do anything else before their next match against Colombia).

    The next here, related to this case, is my opinion :

    I don't think that Peru will get replaced by any other southamerican team for the playoff and at most if FIFA is going to punish someone, if any federation is found guilty of anything, they will punish the whole of Conmebol by declaring forfait the playoff in favour of Oceania and against the interests of Conmebol, as the whole "timing" related to this case has been Conmebol's fault.
     
  11. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Bogota DC.
    Club:
    America de Cali
    So many conspiracy theories.
    Just say that you want Chile in that playoff spot. you dont have to keep going around the subject, beating around the bush, writing semi-large posts..
     
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  12. Guti™

    Guti™ Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2005
    La Victoria
    Club:
    Alianza Lima
    Country:
    Peru
    Que tal alucinada acabo de leer. Pareciera que los que están ingieriendo sustancias prohibidas son otros... :rolleyes:

    Por qué mejor no esperamos a tener toda la información completa antes de hablar disparates?
     
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  13. dapip

    dapip BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Country:
    Colombia
    Ay con mis Chilindrinos....

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    I already asumed we were out, since the game we lost to Paraguay, at home.

    Whatever I have posted aftwards comes strictly from what is written in the laws and rules of the game.

    And to the case being, all I care for is that justice and fairness finds its way.
    Doping for me, is a very serious offense, not for whatever I may feel for the team I may follow, but for what it means for the spirit of sports. If it was a chilean player the one affected by all this crap, I would think of it exactly the same way.

    And dopers, no mattering what nationality they may have, should be punished with the pains of hell. If it were only on me, I would expell them for ever (even a 4 year ban, which is the most they could potentially get, under the rule book, for me is being extremely soft).

    And btw, (you don't have to know it, as it is a personal thing), but half of my family actually is peruvian, so at home, Guerrero's case is a matter of great concern as well, as without him in the team, Peru's chances not only at the playoff, but at the WC as well, really gets affected.
     
  15. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Country:
    Argentina
    Dude, why?

    If it were up to me, FIFA would scrap any punishment for cocaine and marihuana use (or any other drug that don't act like an illegal advantage), for they don't affect their play (at least not for the better) nor gives them any advantages above their rivals...
     
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  16. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    There is 2 diferent things here, and let me explain them a little.

    1. One thing is the legal aspect of the use of drugs or substances in sports. It could be the legal use and the illegal use of any substance. I believe that if something is not allowed (ilegal), nothing justifies the usage of it, no mattering if it is harmful or if it helps in any way. For the legal aspect, all professional players and medical staff related to the practice of sports, perfectly know almost all there is to know about what is accepted and what isn't. So when some positive case of unacceptable substance usage occurs, I simply can't accept explanations that it happened through some sort of accident or lack of knowledge related to the issue, as these guys are professionals. It's not as if something like this has happened to an amateur player, whom only depends on himself in following rules concerning doping. Professional players, have a whole team of people round them, not only at NT level, but also at club level and also at personal level (pro's have lots of possible filters, to avoid falling in cases as this one).
    From this point of view, I simply can´t accept explanations.

    2. the other thing, over which may be debatable, is about if the substance used, is harmfful or if it has some sort of benefit to the user.
    Related to this point of view, I believe is perfectly acceptable to talk over it, if it may be acceptable to allow its usage or not in athletes.

    So, to understand a little what I posted before, related to the issue, it is basicly for the first point of view explained here, in this post (this is my opinion, which might or might not be shared by others).


    An now, related to what you believe on relation to marihuana and cocaine, I don't share your opinion.
    I can maybe come to certain level of agreement in some aspects related to both marihuana and cocaine, but on relation to its effects in the practice of sports, I have no doubts that they both, allow its users to get certain advantages over their opponents, which basicly is the main definition of what doping is for.
     
  17. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    Itchycoo Park
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Country:
    Northern Ireland
    Coca no es cocaina. ;)
     
  18. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    Gareca will now have to re-focus his squad on the 180 minutes that are comng up, regardless of what happens with Guerrero.

    On the positive side of things....There was injury doubts with Paolo so that means Gareca will have been thinking about a plan B all along. Question is basically Ruidiaz or Farfan to play CF
     
  19. dapip

    dapip BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Country:
    Colombia
    Poor choice of words....
     
  20. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    haha I wondered if those words would be quoted ;)
     
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  21. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Country:
    Colombia
    He still can't play for Flamengo right?

    Thats all I care about :whistling::whistling::whistling:
     
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  22. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Country:
    Colombia
    Y tambien familia en colombia...

    Este le sale familia de los paises que habla mal cuando le conviene.....:ROFLMAO:
     
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  23. didier914

    didier914 Member

    Jan 21, 2007
    New York
    Club:
    Alianza Lima
    Country:
    Peru
    No he can't. Can't play for anyone until this is resolved.
     
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  24. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Yo, en general, no hablo mal de ningún país. Si lo que digo, puede herir tu sensibilidad particular, ese tu problema, lo que no quiere decir que lo que he manifestado al respecto, no sea cierto.

    En cuanta a mí familia, (totalmente off-topic), mí esposa es peruana, y comprenderás que por ello, mís hijos también lo son (todos vivimos en Chile, en todo caso).

    Además tengo muchos parientes viviendo en diversos países, tanto de América, Europa, Oceanía y Asia (solo en Africa no tengo parientes, que yo sepa).
     
  25. Ohiginiano

    Ohiginiano Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    El Teniente Stadium
    Club:
    O Higgins Rancagua
    Yo tampoco hablo mal de nadie. Tengo amigos peruanos, colombianos en la universidad, ademas de haber tenido profesores peruanos, argentinos. Tambien he conocico uruguayos y ecuatorianos muy buena gente. No hay que generalizar. Una cosa es la rivalidad en el cancha, y otra las tonteras fuera de ella.
     
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