ELIMINATÓRIAS, R11: Brasil x Argentina, 11/10/16[R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by celito, Oct 31, 2016.

  1. StrokingMonkeys

    Oct 4, 2009
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Maybe it's a sign of the times, but I didn't feel "worried" at all... all game. Even at the beginning when Argentina was in firm control.

    This was NOT a good test for Brasil. I love it when Argentina suffers, but not like this. I want the good old battles of yesteryears.

    When a couple players playing in China START against you and smacks you around almost too easily... Those are dark days indeed.

    Oh well, I will still enjoy adding this game to my collection hehehehe
     
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  2. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Thank you for the great birthday present Seleção! :laugh:

    E podia ter sido mais haha.
     
  3. old_carioca_in_nyc

    Jan 26, 2007
    Philippe Coutinho and Gabriel Jesus are geniuses! Along with Neymar, this is all we need to beat any team out there...
    Congrats to the Capitain Dani Alves! Alisson closed out the goal for us.

    Don't cry for me, Argentina!!!
     
  4. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Anytime we play Argentina and higuian is penciled in as a starter I like my chances. Thank you Bauza
     
  5. StrokingMonkeys

    Oct 4, 2009
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
  6. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Great result ... weird performance . In the end it should have been 5 or 6. Too many missed easy goals.
     
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  7. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    [​IMG]

    Poor Messi :D He deserves a better team.
     
  8. old_carioca_in_nyc

    Jan 26, 2007
    I cannot imagine Argentina eliminated from the next world cup.... they are in the sh*****t hole, very deep!
     
  9. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    I just finished watching the game on DVR. Brazil was vastly superior. I think Messi is past his prime while Neymar hasn't even reached his. And this generation of Argentinians is fading fast while our team is recuperating.

    Argentina dodge a ball. They could easily have lost this 5 or 6 to nothing.
     
  10. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Apparently they have four home games next. They should still be able to pull it off.
     
  11. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    NorthEast USA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No way they don't make the World Cup. I don't care how bad they are right now, they will make it. Just to get eliminated in the quarters.

    I also hope Bauza stays. That guy is either delusional or believes in speaking things into existence because he has said some off the wall stuff( like Argentina will win the World Cup in 2018 and that Brasil was scared of Argentina, Lavezzi is needed, etc).
     
  12. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Argentina will be there at the end but the AFA needs to beg Cholo or Sampaoli to takeover ASAP
     
  13. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    I don't know about Cholo, but Sampaoli is not the kind of guy whom works almost for free.
     
  14. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Man, I thought talent was our issue. I had to endure hearing the rest of CONMEBOL claim that we were nothing outside of Neymar. Heck, some of our own fans were ripping this generation. I knew not to believe any of those things until we saw a REAL coach was in charge. How things have changed, eh? Even with a questionable midfield, you are seeing the result of what an actual coach can do with a team.

    Other than Neymar, we have:
    • One of the best CBs in the world, and he isn't starting yet
    • One of the top young CBs in the world
    • Two top fullbacks, with arguably another one in reserve
    • A DM that was in good form for a top team in Europe
    • Arguably one of the best players in the EPL this season in Coutinho
    • A great young talent up front in Gabriel Jesus
    • and we still have good pieces on the bench.
    As I said in the past, we have enough talent to WIN and be one of the best teams in the world. We just needed a coach who knew what the hell he was doing. In the past, we had super craques and coaches who basically just got out of the way and man managed. Now we have a tactician and a better man manager than Dunga.
     
  15. old_carioca_in_nyc

    Jan 26, 2007
    It was amazing seeing these "bench" players coming in: Douglas Costa, T. Silva, Firmino....
     
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  16. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    #91 Brasitusa, Nov 11, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
    I meant, not consecutive. They have four home games left, and three away (Bolivia, Ecuador, and Uruguay). If they beat Bolivia away and take care of business in their four home games with some wins and ties, even if they lose to Ecuador and Uruguay on the road, they'll still make it. They really need to beat Colombia at home on Tuesday, though, otherwise despair will settle in. Messi for example has never been psychologically strong; he tends to get despondent in tough psychological situations (remember his vomiting on the field? His tantrum that he would quit the team?).

    But yes, they are in significant trouble. Their coach is bad. Higuain is sh!t, Di Maria hasn't done much for a long time, Messi disappears when he is double teamed and doesn't have Neymar and Suarez to feed him, Mascherano is getting old, Aguero is another one who is good for club and not good for the NT... Their golden generation is passing its prime and they haven't accomplished anything other than getting to finals and losing.

    Can't say I pity them...

    Sure, a World Cup without them is less fun, but after the "decime que se siente" I'd love to see them miss Russia 2018 and seal for good the notion that Messi won't ever win a WC and will have his legacy forever tainted in the hunt for Greatest of All Time bragging rights (due to utter failure with the senior national team) which will then remain for the foreseeable feature Pelé vs. Maradona.

    While I disagree (for me Pelé is the GOAT) I don't mind those who put Maradona ahead of Pelé in that hunt (it is a valid stance). I do mind those who put Messi ahead of Pelé and even ahead of Maradona. Unless he makes a miraculous recovery and wins WC 2018 I will always think of Messi as a talented club player who is wonderful when the right system is built for and around him but is an underachiever, psychologically weak individual for the national team. I can't understand people who quote him for GOAT because for me, being the GOAT supposes success with BOTH club and country. Messi clearly only qualifies for half of this equation while most other legendary players have done if for both (at least, those who were lucky enough to be born in a strong soccer country - I wouldn't blame someone like Gareth Bale for not winning major titles with Wales, or George Best with Northern Ireland - but we are talking Argentina here) .

    (This is a bit off topic, I know, but... it's a favorite topic of mine).

    People will counter this by saying that he is their top scorer for the NT, etc. Sure, but... not when it counts. Final after final lost while showing little leadership on the field, and he very rarely made a difference, for example, when playing against Brazil's senior national team. People say it's a team sport and he can't be responsible for the supporting pieces not coming through. Yeah but he plays for Argentina, not for Zimbabwe. People say they were a hair from making it and if Higuain hadn't missed so many goals we wouldn't say that Messi didn't win major titles with the senior team. Yeah but Pelé and Maradona took care of business themselves when it mattered, and showed true on-field leadership even though they did have very good supporting cast (Pelé was luckier in this regard than Maradona which is the reason why I don't mind those who put the latter ahead of the former, but I still think that the former, career wise, gets the nod, including because he didn't self-destruct like Maradona did with drug addiction and all).

    And then, throwing the towel and saying he was quitting??? That's not what a dominant GOAT does.
     
  17. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
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  18. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You know I was one of the ones criticizing the talent we had, specifically attacking wise. I still stand by my opinion at the time. Difference has been the emergence of Gabriel Jesus and the evolution of Coutinho. Now we have players other than Neymar who can really contribute to the team scoring and playmaking wise. Could be obviously argued that Coutinho should have been used earlier by Dunga.
     
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  19. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yep. Argentina has conceded 2 goals to Venezuela and 2 goals to Peru recently. Their defense is not that good so it's not surprising we were able to score 3 even though we struggled in to maintain the midfield. In the 2nd half, with Aguero's addition, it became easier since their midfield was weakened.
     
  20. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Gabriel Jesus was out there and Dunga never dared to gamble on him on the senior side. I'm not really sure Coutinho has really evolved. He's a better fit for what Tite asks. Coutinho was isolated in the few times he played for Dunga.
     
  21. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    I think Coutinho has become more consistent, and I think his game has overall gotten better but he was always a very talented player.
     
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  22. old_carioca_in_nyc

    Jan 26, 2007
    One of the differences between Dunga and Tite is the way we attack. Tite is able to form strategic attacks, and Dunga failed miserably... with Hulk etc...
     
  23. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    To be fair, Dunga attack of Neymar, Costa and Willian wasn't bad at all even though we really didn't get the best of Neymar under Dunga
     
  24. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Hold on a second... that has been my argument!

    You guys kept laughing at me for saying that even the 2014 WC team was extremely talented. I always said, talent is NEVER a problem in Brazil, we even have too much, always changing the team and never evolving. This player had a bad game, substitute him for another and move on. That shows a deep talent pool, not a shrinking one.
     

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