I think that patience was a result of taking a gamble on an inexperienced hire. This time around, it's different. I agree on Tite. Every interview he always says he has a desire to coach an European club team or national team. He wants it badly.
His record in official games is what matters and at the moment, it's not good. Both his wins were vs Peru and Venezuela, and we barely got those wins. It took a piece of magic from Neymar to get 3 points from a poor performance. Dunga's substitutions in the Venezuela game almost costed us the game. We've lost our two most difficult official games (vs Colombia and now vs Chile). Dunga needs to show improvement soon, or I don't think he will last much longer.
I'd also like to officially throw in the towel on the Hulk at CF experiment. He simply doesn't know how to position himself in the box. And for that lack of positional awareness, he doesn't do enough outside of the box to continue playing there. I thought he'd be effective holding the ball up, but he barely had his back to goal last night and I hardly recall a moment where he held the ball for oncoming support (winger making runs to lay off to, etc.). He only took a single shot on goal from outside of the box. He needs to be shooting more. If he wants to continue to play on this team, it's going to have to be a RW, which has too much competition at the moment with Costa, Willian and Lucas Moura. I'd stick with RO as my striker for the time being, fully understanding that he's a stopgap option. I'd also bring a young striker on the squad and get him acclimated.
Ugh... Tite. I feel a mortal enmity towards him. If he ever takes the reins, I'll have to quit watching the Seleção.
tite would probably make this team more defensive. Plus he falls in loves with players and trusts them too much. Either way it's the same tactics , I've never seen tite be a good in game manager in terms of subs and changing tactics. Someone like Abel braga is better at in game adjustments, when flu won the lg he had to tweak the formation to adjust to opponents mid game. A game vs coritiba where he went 3 at the back and miraculously changed his whole system at half is what stood out to me.
Dorival Jr has gotten the better of tite this year. Tite out coaches people like Osorio, he isn't out coaching top class international managers. Guto Ferreira also took tite to the woodshed in the paulista playoffs, tite isn't going to have the "12th" man like he does in Brazil with the refs.
Let me pose this question to you: if Dunga was the coach at Corinthians this season, do you think he'd match the success they've had under Tite? Why or why not?
I don't bitch about calls but how can we accurately judge when Corinthians gets every call? Dunga would probably win the lg with Corinthians but I agree tite is a little better. In tite's credit he had to work with no number 9 pretty much but I also think when judging tite we need to look what happened in first spell there, he's a guy who let his team draw 8 or 9 times in a row with superior talent. Dunga in the brasileirao was a different story, yea inter's defensive talent was ass but the way they leaked goals made me lose some respect for dunga. I just don't think tite is a savior, I don't think I'm being dramatic to fear who he would pick on selecao rosters. Look at how long it took him to bench ralf.... He's stubborn, same as dunga. I do like how tite positions his team on the counter attack.
I agree on the favorable calls. Even taking that in consideration, they'd still at least be top 3, if not more IMO. He also inherited the same team Mano (you still rate him?), with less talent (lost Guerrero, Sheik, etc.) and is getting better results than Mano. He is also getting Jadson and Renato Augusto to ball out more than they ever did with Mano. Elias and Fagner are also playing better under Tite. Yeah, the lack of a real 9 was another point I was going to make. Yeah, he's not perfect, but I think he'd be an upgrade. He can be more flexible with formation than Dunga (over a course of a season, not in game). He definitely has his faults. I also would worry which one of "his boys" he'd bring in, but I think every Brazilian manager would be guilty of that to some degree.
Outside of the two goals Hulks scored against the concacaf, I have yet to see him do one thing right. Movement, dribbling and decision making is just poor.
I'm not sure if I'd rate him as poor. He just simply isn't a good fit at CF. I knew he wasn't a natural fit to begin with, but I thought at least some things would translate over and they didn't. He's clueless on how to play the position.
They also have a top 3 roster which isn't saying a lot in this years Brasileirao. I thought they had the best roster going in because i'm a big jadson guy. I give Tite credit but he hasn't been the best manager in Brazil this year. You mentioned earlier that you wanted someone with Dorival Jr's tactics/mindset and I completely agree. I just don't know if Tite makes players better. Sure, Jadson is looking great but he was just as good if not more dominant under Mano and it is more a question over Renato Augusto's health than quality imo. I can't disagree though, I really like how Tite is positioning Renato Augusto. For all the talk about Dorival Jr being naive at the back he has done a great job with the back 4 and particularly the volante position. Over a lg campaign sure Corinthians will finish ahead of Santos but we have what... like 18 legit first team players that are usable? I start looking away from the overall lg campaign and start looking at particular match ups. Tite has DUNGA TENDENCIES. He can't chase a game, that was evident in the Copa Brasil ties against Santos. If we take all bias out of it and we pretend those were two teams from Peru we can see who had the better tactics. The Tactics Dorival use translate better to international football if we are talking about managing a giant like Brazil, Germany, Spain, France, ect. You know how Tite uses wingers too, the best player on this team is a winger. Is Brazil effective having Neymar in defensive positions like a Durk Kuyt, Jorge Enrique or how he uses Malcom this year? I don't think so, I want him pressing up the pitch. I'm also not going to act like this Paulista campaign didn't happen. Palmeiras X Corinthians was shockingly similar to Brazil X Paraguay. I also want someone who has managed abroad. I'm not discounting Tite because I put him from a pure tactical perspective up there with anyone.. It's just he isn't going to be able to let the other team have possession like he does in Brazil.
Hopefully Dunga's team will show improvement. I would not be shocked by a non-win against Venezuela, as they held off the Paraguayans until the end, but we will be on home ground and the defeat last night should serve as extra motivation. However, let's also remember that Corinthians may be opposed to Tite taking over, especially if as Celito said, Tite leads Corinthians to the Campeonato Brasileiro title and brings the team to another Libertadores participation. It would be a repeat of the 2010 Mano Menezes departure from the club to the NT. Corinthians has political enemies within CBF (Andres Sanchez vs. Marco Polo Del Nero, a variation of Corinthians vs. Palmeiras, although Sanchez has departed from Corinthians). And, with Corinthians winning the national championship and participating in next year's Libertadores, club management would not easily relinquish its most successful manager ever as it went for a repeat of 2012. Vanderlei Luxemburgo managed both Corinthians and Brazil in 1998 for a bit, and ultimately left the former to focus fully on the latter. I don't think either Corinthians or CBF would allow for this, as the former would want full attention on the club's fortunes in the Libertadores and the latter would want Tite to devote himself to getting Brazil in shape - this would be most certain if Tite were indeed to replace Dunga, because for such a move to happen by the end of 2015, Brazil would have to have poor results against Venezuela, Argentina, and Peru. Last but not least: Brazil's first WCQ game in 2016 will only be in March: a home game against Uruguay. It would be Tite's competitive debut, and it's not as if his hiring will bring miracles or very quick results. He will need time to implement his system, and even a diligent and attentive student of the game like him will have a learning curve in adapting from club to NT management. Either way, whether we have Dunga for the long-term or Tite anytime soon, it will be a very difficult parada until 2018.
Trading a Tite for a Dunga just doesn't make a big enough difference for me, it's probably very minimal. I'm sick of Dunga but the two men are so similar other than personality. I heard Venezuela was trash against Paraguay, I haven't respected them since 2011 copa america. Juan Arango and Miku aren't pulling rabbits out of hats anymore.
I decided to look at the numbers to see if any of them matched what I saw. One shocking stat I saw (@Guigs favorite site, Footstats; not sure where else to find international stats) was that we attempted 17 (!!!) crosses and connected on none of them. I knew we had our fair share of crosses, but not that much. We can't blame Alves on them. I think Hulk's positioning in the area affected those numbers. http://www.footstats.net/jogos/08-10-2015/chile-x-brasil/ EDIT: I wish I could see which players attempted the crosses. I bet Oscar has some, especially if they counted some of those passes in Chile's box as crosses even though they were short (when we had those counters).
Last night's result is absolutely normal considering the level of players available to us. Without Neymar we don't have a clear superiority over Chile or Colombia, depressing as that sounds.
think about this for a second, Things have gotten so desperate we're about to give freaking Ricardo Oliveira a shot at starting as CF at 35 years old. Guy's not even a has been, has a "never was" in the international scene. When he was in his prime 10 years ago he wasn't good enough to even sit on the bench, 12 call ups in 12 years. Can we really blame Dunga for what's happening right now?
Come on now.. No mention of your boy dunga? Overall he got his tactics right but not making subs sooner especially with oscars play is something that can't be defended. That game was hardly as lopsided as I see people and media making it out to be.
Belated participation here - I had to DVR the game. Oh well, we continue the Neymar dependence. Oscar is no Neymar. The latter might have scored 2 to 4 times if given the same opportunities Oscar had. He might have scored a couple more given opportunities other players had. We are limited to workhorses who are not very talented (I mean, poor Hulk tries hard, but this kind of player would never have a spot in the golden times of the Seleção). Good that at least Argentina lost as well by the same score, at home, and to a team not as good as Chile. But the concerning thing is that CONMEBOL now has a lot of parity. In the past, the WC Qualifiers were basically an easy run (in some years, a bit more difficult, but still) for Brazil and Argentina. Now, we have Chile and Colombia, and with Suárez back Uruguay is a force to reckon with as well. Paraguay has always been a tough cookie, and even Peru, Venezuela, and Ecuador, are no longer pushovers. Even Bolivia can be tough to beat at home, in the altitude. So, with this mediocre team and Dunga not being the brightest kid in the block, Brazil does risk - for the first time in history - not qualifying for the WC.