East Coast version of PCSL?

Discussion in 'Canada' started by LyotoM, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. LyotoM

    LyotoM Member

    Apr 1, 2011
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Canada needs teams in

    Saint John
    St Johns
    Halifax
    PEI
    Moncton
    etc?

    Pro Teams or PDL Teams...as long as they have a youth setup and can pay a small expansion fee (Pros just like NPSL) then they are in
     
  2. RedCoatsforever

    Jun 10, 2008
    London, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The ferry to Newfoundland and the costs of bussing it across Confederation Bridge could be pretty prohibitive for small time clubs and-more importantly-their fans. Still, NPSL is probably the best model for any new regional pro leagues in Canada.

    Soccer is pretty much the most popular sport in PEI, and King George V stadium in St.John's has a good pitch by turf standards. Given the Newfoundland climate though, turf really is the only option for a full season of games...
     
  3. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The fee for crossing the Confederation bridge for a three axle coach is $50 so I don't think that would be very prohibitve, although I agree with your assessment for Newfoundland.

    I think that an east coast semi-pro league (ACSL?) is an excellent idea. If it was kept to the Maritime provinces only, there's a total population of only 1.8 million, but it only covers about 132 km^2 so travel wouldn't be too harsh. The longest possible drive would be from Sydney Nova Scotia to Edmundston New Brunswick which is about 10 hours.

    They could start by encouraging the highest level existing ameteur clubs in the Maritimes to form the league.

    If things went well, then they could consider adding Newfoundland to the fold.
     
  4. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    The PDL is probably out. There are no existing teams they could link up geographically speaking with so it would only work if all the teams came on at once. If they're going to do that, it would make more sense just to start their own league (or, even better, become a CSL Atlantic division).

    St. John's is out due to travel. The best bet would be for teams in Fredericton, Saint John, Moncton, Halifax, and Charlottetown. Unfortunately, that's it - this is literally the list of all the areas with populations over 50 000 (except, technically, for Cape Breton but that's only because a very large area is counted as one unit).

    It could be made to work but it would require all five cities to enter and survive together.
     
  5. RedCoatsforever

    Jun 10, 2008
    London, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think that in an atlantic division you could have more than one team in some of those areas though, for instance, the two largest and most successful clubs in Nova Scotia are Halifax City and Halifax County. The two already have a great rivalry and extended membership. In Fredericton, the Picaroons are doing well, and have developed something of a derby (well spectated even) with Fredericton Wanderers.

    You could probably run a decent division with 8 or so clubs in the Atlantic, with an expansion to Newfoundland after the league has stabilized its presence in the Atlantic sports scene.
     
  6. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    I'm always a bit leery of plans for more than one team in a market but I don't have any special knowledge of soccer in Atlantic Canada so maybe it would work in selected markets.

    It's also a question of what level you want the teams to operate on. If you want a D3 bus league in the cities I mentioned in a previous post then you can probably make things work with crowds of a few hundred. (The new Kingston CSL team owner is targeting 300 to 500 fans per game, for example.) Maybe Halifax could do that for two teams.

    If you want a stronger league, with longer distance travel to places like St. John's, then you're going to have to draw probably 1000 or more to each game. That would likely be tough enough for one team in a market, let alone two.
     
  7. bettermirror

    bettermirror Member

    Jul 17, 2008
    Fraser Valley
    Well this is a great topic, but the reality is this needs to be done in every region of the country with direct links/feeder-systems to the professional clubs. BC's PCSL/PDL teams link directly with Caps (and eventually Highlanders) and thus Caps can also send out players "on loan", Alberta/Sask/Mtb need to link with Edmonton (and eventually Winnipeg), Ontario has CSL and is linked with TFC (and eventually Ottawa/Hamilton - TFC Academy), and Quebec same with MTL, thus an Atlantic semi-pro league would be great....But what incentive? Where are these players going to be fed on to? The current 4 professional teams plus the future 5th, and potential ones in Victoria and Winnipeg will need to spend their time and money locally due to budget restraints.
     
  8. RedCoatsforever

    Jun 10, 2008
    London, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I feel like if New England can have and MLS team, New Scotland should be able to manage NASL or USLPRO. :p
     
  9. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I don't think these lower level leagues need to exist to feed the bigger clubs. It's not like a farm system for hockey, it's just a lower level of league.
     
  10. bettermirror

    bettermirror Member

    Jul 17, 2008
    Fraser Valley
    by lower-level I don't mean "less professional." They are, as a feeder system, meant to serve the higher level clubs. So while I am not suggesting a draft, the purpose of these leagues should be to develop and then expose players to the top teams (fully professional) in Canada...and all should have a u18-u21 focus. Not to say you don't have talented +22 year olds in the league, but the reality is the leagues should be set-up to support those youths. Ie, "must have 4 u18, 4 u21-aged players in the first XI." Or along those lines. The reality is our u16-u18 aged players need to be in professionalized environments. Not "top youth leagues" unless our only goal is to serve universities.

    There is a move to "professionalize" youth soccer - which is great if it doesn't cost the families a huge amount while only a tiny percentage of the players involved move on to pro or university. However, as JDV and Cabrera have suggested - what's the point if there isn't an adult system for the players to move to?
     
  11. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Why do the pro teams have to be located in Atlantic Canada? Sure, it would be nice for Halifax to have an NASL team. The lack of pro teams hasn't stopped Atlantic Canada from developing hockey players, though, so I don't see why it would be an obstacle for soccer.
     
  12. bettermirror

    bettermirror Member

    Jul 17, 2008
    Fraser Valley
    Atlantic Canada has major junior hockey players though - you can't compare the development of NHL players to that of soccer. Apples & Oranges.

    Having a USL Pro or NASL team in Maritimes would aid in the youth development most certainly.
     
  13. seathanaich

    seathanaich New Member

    Jul 17, 2011
    Vancouver Island
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Just so people outside of BC know, the PCSL "clubs" are temporary every year, and are a summer league to contrast with the regular winter season of club soccer in BC. The PCSL divisions are a mix of teams that exist only during the summer, and entrants from clubs that exist year round. Some have a youth set-up, others do not. The PCSL is not terribly interested in attracting fans or sponsors, doesn't expect to, and doesn't try to; in contrast to the lacrosse WLA, BCHL junior hockey, and BCJFL football, which all try to attract fans (and do).

    Any attempts to form regionalised Tier III leagues should start from scratch, because that's the only way to bypass existing old boys networks that haven't worked to this point. Leagues should be given monopoly mandates by the CSA. They should grant franchises and control where they are located (ie one per city). They should insist upon mandatory time-table for members to create womens and youth teams (ie a proper club).

    The PCSL sounds nice in theory, but doesn't actually do much in practice for the development of Canadian soccer. It's a players' league, not a spectators' league. Two of its clubs exist to promote ethnic tribalism and fundamentalist Christianity respectively. These are causes which belong elsewhere. The PDL and it's regionalised divisions and inclusive community clubs are a better springboard to, and model for, regionalised Canadian soccer at a semi-pro level.
     
  14. bettermirror

    bettermirror Member

    Jul 17, 2008
    Fraser Valley
    Could it not be at all possible those "ethnic" groups are not just giving their "congregations" somewhere to play a sport they love rather than trying to promote anything? Have you ever attended games of either - are they setting up "here's why our beliefs are right" booths? Settle down, chief.
     
  15. seathanaich

    seathanaich New Member

    Jul 17, 2011
    Vancouver Island
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    "Could it not be at all possible those "ethnic" groups are not just giving their "congregations" somewhere to play"

    No, there are hundreds of inclusive, non-race based clubs they could join. Or hadn't you noticed that? Of course, that would force them to actually associate with people who look a little different than they do, which is something that frightens racists and bigots.

    "Have you ever attended games of either - are they setting up "here's why our beliefs are right" booths?"

    When your name is "Athletes in Action", code for "Christian Athletes in Action", and your club logo has religious symbols, and play on a private religious university, and you run camps for Christian kids . . . all that is much more than a mere info tent at your home games. And yes, I've attended PCSL games, and been one of the few people in the stands NOT related to someone on the field. Ethnic teams don't seem to be a formula that's bringing in the "ethnic" fan. But it sure as hell keeps away a lot of people. That being the case, keep tribal clubs in rec leagues where they belong, and let's try something that will work better at the elite amateur / semi-pro level than the things that haven't created paying crowds in the last 75 years or so. Maybe we should look to countries that actually have successful soccer pyramids. None of them use tribalism as the basis for semi-pro sport. I've noticed crowds in the high hundreds and low thousands at Western Lacrosse Association, BC Jnr Football League, and BC Jnr Hockey League games - all sports with far fewer participants than soccer has. Not coincidentally, none of the teams in those leagues is tribal. All are based upon geographical, rather than ethnic, boundaries. That's one of the reason why those sports get fans, and semi-pro soccer doesn't.

    "Settle down, chief"

    I'm fine, "chief". Are there any other sports in Canada where tribalism is defended by people? No, I didn't think so. So rather than demonising those you disagree with, try a coherent argument instead. It's possible to make those without resorting to name-calling.
     
  16. RedCoatsforever

    Jun 10, 2008
    London, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Six Nations LaCrosse, Hamilton Croatia Hockey, Toronto Scottish Rugby.
     
  17. seathanaich

    seathanaich New Member

    Jul 17, 2011
    Vancouver Island
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I should have clarified: in semi-pro Canadian sport.

    Funny I've never heard of Hamilton Croatia in the OHL, or Toronto Scottish in the now-defunct Rugby Canada Super League. Could that be because they're beer-league teams, I wonder?

    Yes, I'm aware of 6 Nations in lacrosse, and that racism / tribalism / segregation by choice is common among the aboriginal community. They form race-based sports teams where I live, too. Of course, nobody is allowed to criticise that for PC reasons.
     
  18. RedCoatsforever

    Jun 10, 2008
    London, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Toronto Scottish play in the Marshall Premiership, which is like the CSL for Rugby. Hardly beer league.
     

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