Review: Dynamo 2018 Attendance & Off-Field Performance Review

Discussion in 'Houston Dynamo' started by Westside Cosmo, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    I like Webb and his fandom should be commended, but I don’t think he realizes his constant defense of the FO and this team does more harm than good.

    IMO - this roster is so shtty that there’s no one that would make me want to drive 1.5 hrs to watch a game. At this point, I’m willing to concede and hope the Dynamo acquire a 35 year old has-been just to make things interesting.

    Our superstar is an ex-Olimpia player destined for the English Championship or some random Eastern European league and our best GK is dealing with legal problems and will probably end up playing for San Antonio Spurs FC.
     
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  2. MLSNHTOWN

    MLSNHTOWN Member+

    Oct 27, 1999
    Houston, TX
    The attacking talent on the roster and its ability to attack and score goals in MLS is as good as it has ever been in this franchise's history. However, there is zero depth behind Manotas, Elis, and Quito.

    Cabezas and Martinez are both solid to slightly above average MLS players. Martinez is not a #10 though.

    The rest of the roster is just a collection of JAGs IMHO.

    It's also sad the disconnect between the Front Office and the fan base. They just seem content to do their own thing while they lose fans left and right.
     
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  3. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This organization screams “whatever you do don’t go over budget even if investing extra dollars to bring back a 10 times multiple return of the spend!!” .
     
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  4. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Dynamo are like that local Denny's that's a bit dated but conveniently close to your house that you go to every so often to get a Grand Slam but don't leave there eager to come back soon. They've got some nice breakfast dishes (forwards) and some good sides (fullbacks who score on set pieces) but not coming back for dinner unless its 1:00 AM and your group is mostly drunk.

    And to listen to folks tweet about attendance vs. Minnesota "not being that bad" and 4,000 folks are at Taste of Eado instead of in their seats is just silly. Superfan is delusional and based on his tweets tonight he spent a few hours driving around Houston looking for the Brazos Valley Calvary PDL game only to realize it was actually in the Dallas area. Maybe Trump Derangement Syndrome has really gotten into to his brain

    There seems very little about this organization that is real and authentic in terms of ambition, investment, and communication with the fanbase. I truly don't think they even market the team anymore. Maybe I don't watch or listen to enough different things but other than KUBE commercials and some ABC 13 stuff (who looks to be a sponsor this year) there is little promotion.

    We've got an ownership group that seems - from everything outward facing - content to take in SUM distributions and expansion fees and couple it with a cheapish (likely) cash flow positive soccer team that pays down debt service to result in mediocrity at all levels. Run it like a Class B/C apartment building.
     
  5. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't think I needed to post this but last weeks atrocious "announced" attendance of 13,094 seemed a bit exaggerated. Coming of a 19,250 crowd for the Texas Derby and it's clear that the ownership and FO has damaged this fanbase extensively.

    This franchise needs a complete reboot from Brener on down, which it will never get.




    [​IMG]
     
  6. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This reddit thread has 74 comments about why attendance sucks for the Dynamo - http://www.reddit.com/r/dynamo/comments/924hrt/the_attendance_is_terrible/

    Some Westside thoughts:
    1) There is definitely something to the concept that a Downtown stadium (with the perceived parking issues, prices of tickets, etc.) dissuades some of the old Robertson crowd from attending games as a walk-up. Now, the FO could certainly refute this with data but alas, they probably will never share it because it may likely show huge dropoffs in actual tickets sold
    2) the supporters' groups attendance certainly appears down from photos. Some shade thrown at TA for just being a tailgating club but can't blame anyone's interest from waning in this club
    3) Pricing of tickets, especially ones not likely to sell, is overmarket. Nosebleed endzone seats are $39 each after AXS fees.
    4) The Dynamo seemed to have internal cost-cutting measures that attempted to erode the value of being a season ticket holder (cheap and not useful Orange Rewards program, no discounts, no other BBVA events beyond Central American soccer) and it has been further eroded by being cheap with the team and devaluing all tickets, such that the only secondary market is roughly a half-price one to dump tickets. Why be a STH?

    Dynamo "strategy" seems to be following a newspaper one - keep raising prices or nickel-and-dime the eroding revenue base even further because you can't actually grow the business.
     
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  7. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is specifically that Canetti diverged away from what Oliver promised us old guard from the early years on how we advised him and our FO on how our stadium would be best situated. With us old guard knowing ahead of time how to deliver fan seating and yet our hincha supporters section plus maximum fan seating around the rest of our downtown stadium.
     
  9. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    re: Reddit thread

    Im glad people are starting to see the light. When we started complaining 5-6 years ago it was disheartening that people still towed the FO line. At this point if you still believe the FO you shouldn’t be allowed to operate heavy machinery.

    There’s a guy on there trying to argue that prices are at the correct price point. He’s wrong. Guys at this point we’re a glorified COCACAF team. That’s a CONCACAF team without North American players (Mexico, US). That’s not worth $40 per person on a random Wednesday night.
     
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  10. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    The ticket prices affecting walkup, if true, would remain true even if it were out in the suburbs or back at UH. I do agree that prices have risen to the point where it's no longer an impulse item. I mean surely people remember a decade ago when you could get in for $15? That's a walkup price. $29 is not walkup in the same way, at least not with this team.

    However, the difference between The Rob's college lots and hunting for downtown parking might make it slightly less attractive.

    Re SGs, it used to be very hard to critique the team with some of their members on here, who thought we did no wrong. I always felt like they organized ganging up on people like me who just wanted to be honest about what they were seeing. So maybe some were fair weather and it's less fun for those types to be an honest supporter as opposed to a lead bandwagoner.

    Broken record that we came into existence post world series (White Sox) and as the Astros slipped down towards not spending at all, we were still in our run. But they started spending and won a title. It's been 11 years for us, and our spending is less and less competitive. They've effectively flipped. Would it then surprise at all if they went from watched by hundreds plus road fans to huge attendance, and we went from pretty good attendance to 13k? It's a pro sport where the product is the draw. If the product slips or is eclipsed by the neighbor's effort level, why should we be your choice? Unless you're a serious soccer fan, but I only think some of the STH were that. Many of them were one assumes corporate or casual fans. OK, Astros vs Dynamo. Easiest choice in the world if soccer isn't your passion.

    I agree on airflow. Even if you hate heat you could do The Rob at 8 and get the seabreeze. This thing now is sweltering and I don't think it helps with the light coming off the rest of downtown. I now go either spring or fall.
     
  11. antnee7898

    antnee7898 Member

    Oct 19, 2007
    South Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I used to go to the Rob to see Dynamo games, a lot. I mean Regular season, CONCACAF Champions Cup, Superliga. I loved it, took the kids. I miss the Rob, a lot. I don't go now because i have 4 kids and it would cost way too much and would be too hot. I would love to go, but everything thats being said here is true. I am turned off, a bit but enough because of cost, by the downtown parking. If i somehow were to afford tickets for 5, i definitely wouldn't get food. It is sad about the lack of spending on big draw talent, and as much as i love to get jerseys, i won't buy one without a sponsor. I wish i could see and be a part of something like they have in Atlanta or LA. It's sad to see the empty seats.


    Have the SGs tried some kind of protest
     
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  12. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #113 CeltTexan, Aug 4, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
    Our club's main issues can be solved with competent customer service, all in for academy youth development and certainly a desire to spend. Our city has more to offer an international footballer than Atlanta and certainly Frisco. When our FO wants to rodeo the fuc€ up our people will witness the honest and genuine change in making our club the best in MLS.
    Recall our youth scene, (both male n female btw for Dash concerns) our city's international standing and our people's proven track record of going long for MLS competition n following our league closely. When AEG lied to those SJ fans trying to keep their MLS team, which was winning, it was all of us in Houston that made their relocation project a success! AEG went moving here to our Gulf Coast South believing Houston was going to be a la K.C. or perhaps old Tampa circa 2002. To which we blew that thought process outta the Braes Bayou water! AEG was turning fans away that opening night! Ching n Onstand n our boys pick up on our love n win MLS Cup first time landing!!! Years on and we have these questions of where our club is going.
     
  13. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh man, when you start losing the “fan of the year” who is so orange from Kool-Aid drinking that he looks like a traffic cone, you know the FO has a problem (although he blames the Chronicle and the fan base for the problem)

    [​IMG]
    This is embarrassing. There is no excuse. Nothing else going on in Houston. Good weather. A good team. Great stadium. And a freaking rivalry. Only excuse is there is so little damn coverage in English media. People didn’t know about the game.


    10:45 PM · Aug 6, 2018
     
  15. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He has half a point. The media doesnt cover the team well. The flip side is there's no advertising budget and the Dynamo don't act like a major team
     
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  16. nbrooks503

    nbrooks503 Previously Held @Dynamo Hostage From 2008-2019

    Jun 1, 2008
    Disgruntled Former STH - Fairweather Bandwaggoner
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the point is pointless.

    The Chronicle made a decision to lay off the only full time Dynamo beat reporter they had. They replaced him with an intern. The major TV stations mention the team in passing on game days.

    Even if the Dynamo made it to the MLS final, it still wouldn't get coverage.

    What could make all of that change would be for the Dynamo to sign Ronaldo (the other one), Messi, and the bloke who just told the German National Team to GFYS.

    But the signings would have to be now - not 10 years from now.

    There's a lot of folks seriously reconsidering whether or not to renew for 2019 based on the last two games. I'll be renewing in deference to LeoPonce, and because I'm originally from Blighty where we support our team even if it gets relegated and remains relegated (I did drop one ticket however - so that allows us to travel to countries where the game is still well attended and exciting).
     
  17. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    summer transfer window closes tomorrow. we are flailing in the water. failing that it's like where are the trades. even if just to clear space for 2019.
     
  18. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    what should be most disturbing is not just the modest spending or the lack of effort but how it feels like we consume part of the next window and the next with something akin to "debt service" on the prior year. our major "acquisitions" of the year were basically getting elis and cabezas back via purchase options. so not only are we losing the spending battle we're so broke we drag it out consuming two windows for loan-to-buy.

    fwiw, technically Gil is not yet ours. "pass."
     
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  19. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Building A Champion (this season's moves)

    Cabezas (hurt)
    Steeves (hurt)
    Elis
    Fuenmayor (ok enough)
    Wenger (option)
    B. Garcia (re-sign)

    ....and then.....

    Deric (RGV)
    Willis (resign)
    Nelson
    Seitz
    Delagarza (resign, not played)
    Remick (resign, hurt)
    K. Garcia (option)
    Beasley (resign)
    Malki (option, not played)
    Senderos (option)
    Watts
    Lundkvist
    Alexander (resign)
    Ward (option, gone)
    Alvarez
    Memo (option)
    Bird
    Ceren

    ....and who knows about....

    Pena
     
  20. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    Yeah, Nigel is right. I’m a ‘support in the good times and the bad times’ kinda guy. I felt like a dik not renewing, but I felt I had to make a personal protest.
     
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  21. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems like twitter and reddit today had plenty of chatter on the FO shortcomings (including Dynamo ticket guy Jay Adelberg trying to blame the fans for poor attendance), but this one 2 comment thread on reddit captures the insanity, see this comment:

    “I wish I had the answer. I think being frustrated and voicing your complaints is normal, but actions taken by other fans such as canceling season tickets or threatening to stop coming to games are completely out of line. Actions like these do not help any part of the organization”

    Out of line to not buy a product that the manufacturer doesn’t care about the quality or price?

    http://www.reddit.com/r/dynamo/comments/95iplc/my_two_cents/
     
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  22. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this hits home Westie.
    There was an era in MLS to beg soccer fans to come out n watch the product on display. 1996-2005.
    Then 2006 and us in Houston went long on MLS and loving the league and pro U.S.A. soccer.
    To then witness a two time league champion that beats a regional juggernaut in Pachuca in 2007. An MLS club that EARNS traction in their local media market.
    Years later and us die harda are asking the above questions with legitimate concerns.
     
  23. AcetheTigah

    AcetheTigah Member+

    Apr 6, 2005
    Woodlands, TX
    Of all the moves I think they missed the mark on - none of these guys are starters only inn case of emergency should they ever play

    Big Fails:
    Lundvquist - fats enough but not as good as Beasely or Wenger at outside back
    Gil - too slow
    Watts - too flaco
    Malki - too slow for MLS
    Senderos - just because he isn't fit to play all the time but he is also pretty slow
    Ward - too slow for MLS
    Alvarez - too slow for MLS
    Seitz - what a whiff by FO if he can't even sit Willis down

    Pena - looks very slow

    Ceren was a good pick up - think of where we would be if we didn't have him since Cabezas being injured!
    Steeves and Nelson weren't bad draft picks considering our position
     
  24. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    It's a professional sports business where the team and the game presentation are the product. We all know when "Beckham comes to town" so to speak, attendance goes up, and when the team is off, attendance drops. So, "support your team no matter what" as an abstract matter aside, as a practical matter it's tied to quality of what we expect to see. The abstract argument is more of a philosophy than any sort of economic or practical truth. The truth is we care what the product looks like.

    I've said it before, the idea of endless happy support of European and Latin teams is a myth. People don't show up in bulk for cup games where they expect a B team. At teams outside a happy few, attendance does respond to whether they feel a competitive team is on offer. Fans may walk out or boycott if they don't like the owners or feel like the team is not good enough. It's only at teams that are the functional equivalent of the Washington Redskins, with endless membership wait lists, that they can expect a loyal full house every week.

    We have a team where we were spoiled by initial success almost to the point of being jerks to people like me who wanted to treat it as a sports team with varying merits each year. But now it's been more than a decade and I have plenty of critical company, of the ones who are left. Some of the former cheerleaders turned out to be incorrigible critics or even to disappear when no longer handed prime beef. I'm still here. So you have that issue.

    And then you have the deal where this is not a walkable city and most people have to drive to games. Ticket prices have gone up while the product has gone from a competitive product in a league with a hard cap to a soft cap team that won't spend. This could be overcome by an exceptional GM and coach but the coach is a gimmick dispenser who can't adjust and the GM is simply bad.

    And then you have the Astros playing at the same time, spending money, and becoming the new trophy team. They play indoors and we play outside in the heat. If you're a casual fan or corporate perk buyer, why us and not them?

    What made the Astros change their tactics was the bottom fell out of attendance and they were going to start having financial/debt service problems. In which case they have to start spending to pursue viability again. Or, perhaps if we don't show, rather than spend, they sell, and the new owners are willing to spend. This is not that expensive a league to have a team and to even spend right. We're talking low teens millions tops. There are individual pro players in town making that each year in other sports. Surely someone in town can afford that. And if people not showing up has to happen to get there, it's worked before.

    That being said, there is a risk the team skedaddles. But I think if that ever happened we'd be a lead expansion candidate and maybe the new version would be adapted to the current MLS and not stuck years behind.
     

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