Review: Dynamo 2018 Attendance & Off-Field Performance Review

Discussion in 'Houston Dynamo' started by Westside Cosmo, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Heft

    Heft BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 20, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    The investors do not have a real need to invest heavily into the roster at this point in time. They are doing very well with SUM and expansion fees, plus no pressure of losing D1 status.
     
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  2. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    there has been a lot of interesting twitter discussions on the whole issue of the Dynamo not being able to attract fans to to the first two games in the last day or two (I know the attendance figures are not that bad but still down from last year and the amount of no-shows seems higher).

    Many reasons are cited, all with varying degrees of validity, but I go back to something I have said for years on this board: its a lot easier to retain a client or customer than it is to get new ones. Dynamo FO forgot that and treated many of the season ticket holders as disposable assets and now have hit the wall on new customers while the Astros and Rockets momentum has put them to the backburner. I do believe the Astros' success has had an impact, but if the Dynamo offered a compelling value for the money or an indication they cared about their customers, they'd have retained many of those buyers who dropped the Dynamo tickets for Astros tickets (or claimed their budget could only allow for one or the other) as in comparison they are significantly cheaper and more likely for fans to attend a higher percentage of games.

    This is just an interesting case study on how an MLS team has managed to contract economically in a growing market with a relative new downtown urban stadium.
     
  3. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SUM fees are and continue to be great. Those expansion fees aren't that big of a check. What is working is somehow they continue to have plenty of sponsors to fill the bank, combined with their in-stadium revenue, and the lack of need for cash calls from the league anymore, minus the (seemingly) decreasing funds for the FO (in all areas) all means they're making money. The team valuation continues to rise at an absurd rate.

    If all you care about is making more money this year than last, then Chris and Co are doing a fantastic job. If you care about growing the business, however, and really turning the company into something special (and really make bank) then he is a total failure and shouldve been fired years ago, along with all senior staff.

    A million small things can be done to turn things around. All it takes is competency, elbow grease and a budget to match.
     
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  4. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I beg to differ "the Dynamo are cheaper." You don't get in the door at BBVA for less than $24-25, you can attend many Astros games for as little as $7 if you take nosebleeds, and for $25 I can get right field bleacher seats where I can see the bullpen and IMO similarly likely to see a homer as Crawford Boxes.

    At the time when the Dynamo prospered, they were outside downtown and not a similar trip, the Dynamo were winners, they had a competitive roster of name brands and did not come across as "cheap" as they now look in the DP world (though this may have reflected the hard cap), and the Astros were in a down ebb coming off their previous World Series trip where they got swept.

    I agree in the sense that fandom lags, fans don't come right back unless you win hardware. And they are no longer the only game in town while everyone else farts around. If you were a business buying tickets as employee rewards, and you didn't have a specific soccer fan set to please, and you could buy only one team package deal, what would you buy right now?
     
  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    My optimistic thought is like the Astros earlier this decade we are engaged primarily in the paydown of acquisition and stadium debts, and that as that process moves along we will spend more. Pessimism is that the reality the Astros faced is that attendance dwindled when people could tell they weren't trying real hard or spending at all, which made it impossible to generate the revenue for the debt service strategy and basically forced a decision between risking more spending or just spiraling to nothing.

    At least part of what they face is this is The Big City, one of the top 4 largest in the country, and it's pro sports, not going to watch A&M, UH, or Rice. You are not an alum, you don't have to go even if the coach had a horrorshow recruiting class. If they act like they have to moneyball it, that doesn't square with my sense of what this city can afford -- and what the other teams in town are spending -- and it's pro sports, despite the orange colored glasses' set's attempt to enforce some sort of fake, pseudo-European "support the team at all costs" culture where we back orange no matter what, in terms of tangible ticket and merch buying, give me a product I want and spend like the rest of the league.

    I think the Astros and Rockets go to the casual fan question; I think the spending goes more to the sophisticates who understand that USA, Mexico, or a summer friendly may be coming by.

    I do think they have quietly moved to this loan to buy model which does involve acquisition costs people unfairly don't count towards payroll. That is added expense. They will likely do another this summer. But then a lot of the other MLS teams are transferring in now too, so I'd be curious if we included loan and transfer fees in payroll and compared again, would we still be bottom.
     
  6. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I would say this begs for a fan survey but I think a lot of the things that would attract more fans are going to be out of the box, cooling systems, better game presentation, working on whole stand fan involvement. I think if you asked the fans it would likely be payroll and the heat. Asking the fans what they want at a little too crass a level is kind of why we are where we are. I wouldn't be surprised if people beefed about concessions. So they work on concessions. Is that really the biggest issue in attendance and revenue? I doubt it. Is it something obvious that shows up if you "ask the fans what they want?"

    I mean, to me, some of this comes down to leadership and trying to change the team-fan dynamic to increase loyalty and interest, as opposed to what we do, which is like revenue engineering at a cynical and rather low level. I mean, let's change the concessions while leaving the old dynamic, as opposed to let's change the fan experience and see if more people want to show up because it's fun, which, huh, would also make us more money. I don't see anything visionary.

    FWIW I assume the improved concessions cost someone money. Why not spend that on atmosphere or the field product. For some reason they miss the basic lesson that the biggest crowds for this team were when they were winning trophies and when someone like Beckham came by. And if you don't want to play that game every year, make it more fun where the fan isn't thinking so much about how we sit in the table.
     
  7. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m pretty sure they’ve ignored the results of every fan survey. One of the ones a few years ago I gave specific feedback on a certain issue multiple times and it was never addressed, so either it was not a material item in their eyes or they just didn’t care because I kept renewing
     
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  8. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One other offsetting factor to the good side is that it appears on pictures that the Dynamo still have a pretty good amount of suites leased out. Only a few look completely unoccupied and some of those on the SE side are one game party suites for rental.

    So while club seats appear to have quite a few not sold, the guaranteed annual lease revenue from suites (about 60k per year times 30 give or take a few thousand on either side depending on location) is a substantial locked revenue stream even if the suites aren’t used.

    I believe they were mostly on 3-year deals as well
     
  9. TxDynamo

    TxDynamo Member

    Feb 13, 2007
    Houston
    what goes on inside the stadium is just as important as what the fo does or doesnt do. fans where asked to pay to watch some ugly ass soccer forever. now they are asked to pay to watch a counter attack team. when are we going to actually play a decent brand of soccer?
     
  10. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    ^^^ E.x.a.c.t.l.y
     
  11. MLSNHTOWN

    MLSNHTOWN Member+

    Oct 27, 1999
    Houston, TX
    There is nothing wrong with a counter-attacking team. But if or when teams adjust, you have to be able to break down a team in their third of the field. With our forwards, we aren't going to get the ball out wide and whip in great crosses and win the aerial battle against MLS teams without more size in attack. So you have to have players that can create and pass well enough in their third of the field to break down a team.

    The Tomas Martinez acquisition continues to be the single most depressing moment for me as someone that follows this team. Not that the kid is not a good pick-up, he seems fine enough, but every other team in the league buys down his contract with allocation money and then he is just a roster guy and then they use that DP spot on someone legit.
     
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  12. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Go look at list of DPs - https://www.mlssoccer.com/glossary/designated-player. Elis is fine as one But the rest of the teams you can see who has ambition and who doesn’t have ambition as a club.

    They’ll spend the next four months talking about fit and not overpaying and will end up with some no-name second-tier South American guy who is no longer a real prospect for major club soccer
     
  13. nbrooks503

    nbrooks503 Previously Held @Dynamo Hostage From 2008-2019

    Jun 1, 2008
    Disgruntled Former STH - Fairweather Bandwaggoner
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's a couple of things they're doing now

    pitchside.jpg
    Removed one section of the bleachers where the team enters the stadium.
    This actually seems to be a pretty good deal for a business at $89 a pop.

    Get closer to the action than ever before with our new Pitchside Patio, located right behind the south goal and adjacent to the tunnel to see players up close and personal as they enter and exit the field. Only one reservation per game is available, and we expect to be sold out for the season in no time. The Pitchside Patio includes:

    50 tickets
    Food package included
    2 parking passes
    Price: $4,450 (Dynamo price; Dash price available soon)

    sky lounge.jpg
    I'm assuming that this is above the 200 section, but I don't recall seeing it

    Enjoy the views of the field and the Houston skyline with your group in the Sky Lounge! The Sky Lounge provides your group a place to mingle and socialize with food and beverage right next to your group seating. After being introduced last season, the Sky Lounge promptly sold out - so don't wait to secure your group! The Sky Lounge includes:

    • 30 tickets
    • Food package included
    • 2 drink tickets per person (alcoholic or non-alcoholic)
    • Price: $1,980 for Dynamo games only
    party suite.jpg
    Enjoy a game in style with your friends, coworkers or clients in a party suite just nine rows from the field! Party Suites include:
    • 14 tickets
    • 2 parking passes
    • Food package and soft drinks
    • Price: $3,850 for Dynamo, $994 for Dash
     
  14. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know a group that rented out the "Sky Lounge". I think the seats are the rows in front of the tables and they get appetizers and nachos and stuff like that. I actually have never seen it advertised.
     
  15. Soccergodlss

    Soccergodlss Member+

    Jun 21, 2004
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Kaiserslautern
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They can say, "this who we are, this is what we can afford to spend," all they want. But they must be willing to accept that some fans in this huge metro area aren't happy with second tier ambitions. Maybe we will play well and do the right things on the field. Personally, I'm ok with that if we prove to be very good at that game. But realistically speaking, a lot of our fans are not okay with that and that is the problem the FO faces.
     
  16. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dynamo are sort of trapped - and by “trapped” i mean contained by their own self-acknowledged budget consciousness - because they likely will average about 17.5k fans per game so no big name players is going to generate the incremental ticket revenue to justify the signing the way the Dynamo look at it. Unless Brener is driven to win, they’ll be in the Drayton McLane mode of spending enough to be competitive but not enough to go over the top and then using poor signings as a reason not to make additional ones.

    For all the crap a lot of folks (including myself) threw at Jim Crane, when it came down to it he took on Verlander’s big contract for 2 years beyond 2017 when almost no other team wanted to and it paid off big time.

    I would argue that a big name signing makes it easier to sell a jersey sponsorship, etc.
     
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  17. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #42 juvechelsea, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    You keep leaving out playoff revenue. You sign Elis and some other more ambitious players, you add games to the schedule in playoff or international play, you sell more tickets, you elevate the exposure of the arena since people see it in more games and playoff contests, people consider the arena for their next neutral site event, eg, NT games. People buy more jerseys for a winner than a loser. TV is more willing to pay fees to a winner that people watch than a loser that only the hardcore will see.

    Each game in the playoffs is probably a million in revenue. You kind of get into a "spend money to make it" risk assessment. We did not spend money for a period. The season then ends in October. The spending on the pie was restrained. The pie in turn remains smaller. I've argued before that spending a couple million more would likely pay for itself (and then some) in ticket sales, merch, and additional games, and so it's not really that risky plus while maintaining fiscal probity, voila, more ambition means team does better too. It's tightfist conservative spending in a town that while fairly conservative used to be a wildcatter boom and bust town.

    Have people forgotten the lesson on when the Astros tried to not just launch their own network but do it at a down ebb at a premium? What if they'd done it now, when they are the posh thing in town and probably flush with cash for capital outlays etc.

    And while you acknowledge the Verlander aspect you're not quite talking about how these are rich people who own the team and some in other cities treat their teams more like a vanity project and if they have a chance to win, where is my checkbook, I'll buy the last piece...it is a modern, post-conglomerate notion to treat our sports team as a standalone business that has to balance its own books, and is not just an offsetting division in something bigger (AEG, Time Warner, etc.) or a vanity project where as long as my finances are good let's spend what it takes.

    Also an argument to be made that given what we had done for Beckham and for playoffs, 22k capacity reflects a certain level of effort and ambition. It might be adequate for actual attendance but actual attendance reflects modest effort. The playoff attendance from last season (as well as historic big games) suggests we still have much more latent interest that we can activate on up to, and perhaps beyond, this nominal attendance/capacity discussion. This constant drum beat of "we're screwed" kind of ignores at one point we would get nearly 30k for playoffs, and have done 70k plus for US-Mexico. The question is how to activate that audience.
     
  18. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I mean, one way of looking at it, is we are a stock into which our owners have bought, looking for a return. The business is thus run to turn their profit. The MBAs are like, well, duh, except sports is not a normal business. Who actually buys a sports team with their goal being to "run it like a business." You buy these things to win. If their only money in the business is the initial purchase plus very rare capital calls, what are they really spending on it over time.

    Put differently, how often do the owners watch their own product? Do they go watch Seattle, etc.? Or are we just a spreadsheet and a check and they don't compare our team and its presentation to other shows in the league.

    Honestly if you don't want to actually spend money on the team and are looking for a low risk ROI go invest in Google and get the f*ck out of town.
     
  19. Heft

    Heft BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 20, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Do MLS teams get much of anything for jersey sales? Typically Adidas would get the money. That’s why Adidas and Nike battle to sponsor the big name players like Ronaldo and Messi. Things are a bit different in a single entity league where all teams belong to one club, so I’m not sure that revenue generated from jerseys are substantial. The money is in TV deals and the gate.
     
  20. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the real jersey money is in the Adidas sponsorship deal which is as the league level. I think fans would be surprised how little clubs make in terms of royalties and fees from jersey sales.

    Which is why the NFL just bought into Fanatics
     
  22. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I see fans here acting like they are smarter than, and jaded by, their team. But other than the payroll issue, which is not necessarily the sign of a smart and innovative organization, I don't see a lot of outside of the box thought on where to take this.

    For example, was Reliant ever an option, and who decided how that came out. I think 10 years ago there was a SSS fad and the issue got framed up a certain way. Conventional sorts on here backpatted them for the SSS. Ironically what you've seen since is a resurgence in the football tenancy. Top 3 teams (Toronto, Seattle, Atlanta) share with NFL or CFL and are built to their capacities. Also LAG (moved Chargers), Vancouver (CFL), and NER (Pats). NYC plays in a baseball stadium. The SSSs are a lot of the poorer attended locations.

    I think people need to get out of their stereotypes and look at what works, what is not working as well, what our weaknesses are, and work on fixing it. I think part of it is straight payroll but part of it is this is just not innovative and in some ways is stuck back c. 2006. At a point we were cutting edge and faddish. I would not say that at all anymore outside of the formation on the field.
     
  23. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #48 juvechelsea, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    Put differently, the Patriots' leadership come across like arrogant t*rds and many good sports teams also come across like money grubbing jerks. People are happy to have those jerks if the games are fun and the team wins. The real difference is the amount they spend on players, the quality of the field product, and whether they also make the games fun. To me focusing on "money grubbing jerks" is slightly displaced because I think the real reason people are upset with the attitude is failures in other areas more pertinent to the fan enjoyment, which then trace back to not just arrogance but a cheap version of same. if it was a trophy winning team with full stands and a more fun experience I don't know if more than the odd complaint would mention FO attitudes, because the team is more successful. That would not mean the FO is any less bratty or money grubbing.

    I get what people are getting at with "empty seats" or "arrogant FO" but I don't think it really helps other than as venting. I am more concerned with what GETS DONE, and if it GETS DONE RIGHT, then the seats resolve themselves, and the issue of whether sports in general or this team in particular are greedy, is framed differently in expanse and importance. What use are the seats as metric other than as an indirect measuring tool of other things, more basic to the product, that then aren't being discussed.

    Honestly I don't get that wound up over how many other people show up, or whether the FO are my pals, I care about the value for the ticket or the worthwhileness of the TV product. The more useful stuff is better directed to fixing product than calling the FO liars or jerks.

    I think you're really angry about other things but have selected cudgels of particular sorts for whatever reason. Compulsively posting empty seats pictures is about as pointless as you can get, as it offends the FO you could convince, and begs the question. The real question is what to do to fill the seats. To me showing empty seats every week is basically like you already quit on it and are just showing us your gloomy dungeon every week. Since there were playoff sellouts last year and the overall head count probably made them more money, what. Is. The. Point.
     
  24. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bob McNair had the first option on any MLS team playing at Reliant thru his stadium agreement with the County. Never an option for anyone but him and likely would have been a disaster - lower bowl only events there suck. Not to mention the field and scheduling issues they would have had. Economically not the way to go
     
  25. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Dynamo "won" last year and made the Western Conference Final with a decently exciting attacking crew and cant even draw what they did in 2017 coming off of that achievement and below 2016 which came after 2 non-playoff seasons.

    There is a distinct difference between Dynamo "fans" and Dynamo ticket buyers. The FO and ownership pissed off a bunch of the ticket buyers with the way they ran things the last few years and it all adds up to empty seats, which i will continue to show as visual indicator of the lack of competence and performance by the FO and lack of investment by ownership. And also a complete failure of understanding the market and soccer fans. Minor league baseball experience is not translatable.

    Did you ever have season tickets Juve? Did you have them for 11 seasons?

    You think they are actually gonna invest millions and put recovery of those dollars at risk by signing a $5 million player just to get the same amount of home playoff games and revenue that they got using a rosters with a bunch of loaned players? They won't spend an extra $10k on having enough Star Wars scarves for STHs that would make them happy , what makes you think they will spend big money on an abstract player?
     

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