Duverger's Lawbreakers :: Independents & Third Partiers in 2016

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Knave, Aug 8, 2016.

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  1. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    You're not answering my question.

    You're playing a game of discounting sources. Try hard enough and you can do that with any source.

    I'm asking whether the information a source offers is inaccurate.

    You can't even bring yourself to try to evaluate the accuracy of the information.

    Same reply to you, @stange ...
     
  2. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Not all sources are paid expressly for disseminating propaganda in favor of someone/something, are they?

    I appreciate that you're asking that. It's irrelevant whether or not a piece of information here or there is technically correct or incorrect. Their purpose is to aggressively propagandize.

    That may be considered a valid source by someone predisposed to believe what said organization propagandizes about. I don't.
     
  3. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    If Correct the Record is spreading the sort of misinformation that you presume it is, then it should be rather easy for you to correct Correct the Record here. I'm awaiting your Fisking.

    Oh, by the way -- I expect you to use sources that I can't arbitrarily dismiss. So, uh, good luck!
     
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  4. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you actually read any of the supposed praises? I perused a few of the quotes from the Republicans and while I agree they are true, they are hardly ringing endorsements as to Hillary's likability.

     
  5. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Some of them. Now keep reading. Or don't, whatever.

    Keep living in your bubble, it doesn't affect me.
     
  6. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Their PURPOSE is to spread propaganda. Propaganda often is, but isn't NECESSARILY equivalent to misinformation in every case. It doesn't matter, because the source is expressly the Pravda of Hillary's camp. Breitbart is the Pravda of Orangutan's camp.
     
  7. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Do you know what a quote is?
     
  8. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I read more than a few. Most talked about her viability as a politician, not her likability. I have no doubt she is smart and capable.

    Do you remember how we got onto this topic?
     
  9. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    I do.

    Do you know what "selective editing" and "taking out of context" and even "misinterpreting" are?
     
  10. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Again: I await your Fisking.
     
  11. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Evidently, anyone who pushes back on anything denies this, even though it's probably one of the things that is indisputable.
     
  12. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So if someone quotes something from that KKK newspaper that endorsed Trump, the conversation wouldn't be slamming that person for eternity, but whether if what they said in this instance was true?
     
  13. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    I hope you packed a sleeping bag. It's going to be a while before I do your bidding on this. I have better things to do than try to fight a propagandist.
     
  14. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Presumably, it would be easy to demonstrate if the KKK newspaper was inaccurate.

    That's what I'm asking for here.

    @stanger and @Timon19 are dismissing Correct The Record without even reading the piece.

    So I'm wondering if either of them can back up the dismissal.

    They both tell me that it's biased and therefore inaccurate.

    I'm wondering if either of them can actually show me that it's biased and therefore inaccurate.

    So far neither are even willing to try.
     
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  15. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
     
  16. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Still telling me.

    Not showing me.
     
  17. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    OK, you didn't like ArsenalMetro's link, but it has been widely reported.

    Just from this piece: http://www.taxpayer.net/media-cente...ot-along-with-the-gop.-could-she-do-so-as-pre

    Judd Gregg, former Republican Senator from New Hampshire: I found her to be easy to work with, smart and willing to reach agreement on complicated issues.

    Thomas Reynolds, Republican Congressman: She has the skill set and the ability to be more of a dealmaker than what I've seen from President Obama.

    Gordon Smith, an Oregon Republican: I was in the well of the Senate, had just cast a vote, and Hillary approached me and asked to walk back to our offices together. We walked around the Russell Building several times talking about my son, the difficulty of raising children in this confusing time and the state of mental health law in our country. She revealed to me by that unselfish outreach her humanity and her decency.

    From earlier this year (http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/01/25/daschle-lott-2016-campaign):

    Trent Lott: [Hillary Clinton] She’s a very capable lady and did a good job as a senator.

    Snippets from: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/30/world/americas/30iht-web.0430clinton.html

    Lindsay Graham: [She's a] smart, prepared, serious senator who has managed to build unusual political alliances on a variety of issues with Republicans.

    John Warner: [Hillary's] remarkable core of inner strength.

    You can read this if you want: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...quor-and-other-testimonials-of-gop-admiration


    Seriously, this has been very widely reported. You know, as an ambitious former candidate for president, Clinton sailed through her Senate confirmation for Sec of State at 94-2.
     
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  18. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I presume that at least some of what that KKK paper publishes is actual fact. If I posted a link to it and quoted from it, would you go to that link to read it? Because if it was reversed I wouldn't have any interest in reading anything in that paper, even if it was the weather report.
     
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  19. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    If somebody was quoting a KKK newspaper here, I can guarantee you I'd read what they're linking and verbally fight against what they're saying here. But that's because they're linking a hate group. The complaint against Correct The Record is merely that they're biased. I'm just asking if that bias has made them inaccurate in this instance, and if so how. So far nobody has shown me they're inaccurate.
     
  20. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    That is an interesting article. We can only hope she is as engaged with the opposition as president as she was as a senator.
     
  21. Sudžuka

    Sudžuka Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 27, 2013
    Watching state of the union this morning with Tapper, Bill Weld all but endorsed Clinton. Only thing holding him back was him being on the ticket with Gary Johnson.
     
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  22. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    This is why libertarians end up not being huge fans of the LP.
     
  23. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or, he's actually endorsed Gary Johnson.


    As the former Republican governor of Massachusetts, the state next door, I can testify firmly that neither Trump nor Clinton would help our nation progress in the direction that it needs to go....

    But here's what honest Gary Johnson and I have to offer the nation, and the "Live Free or Die" state of New Hampshire, that neither Trump nor Clinton has to offer: Executive experience and a commitment to limited and constitutional government.

    We believe in term limits for all federal officials, legislative as well as executive....

    the Johnson/Weld ticket is the only one that stands firmly behind free trade, behind increasing immigration, behind cutting federal spending, and behind decentralizing political power. Our ticket is the alternative that Americans are craving.
     
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  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My worry is that the opposition won't engage with her. (Issuing subpoenas doesn't count. )
     
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  25. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No doubt. In this political climate, I can't see Dems working with Trump either. Or any other Republican elected president.

    It's a big part of my vote going third party. I just don't see a way to break this downward spiral.
     
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