Review: Dutch players at home and abroad worthy to be tracked in connection with the Dutch NT - Part 3

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, May 7, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    I stand by my words. Krul once he concedes a goal or two is horrible. In those cases I would rather have a Vorm who sucks even more at distribution than him. He is one of the most panicky keepers as is Vermeer. Its not just the NewCastle defense.

    Krul in general is horrible once he concedes a couple of goals. He rushes un-necessarily & gets caught out of position time & again. I have seen him play this season. He is either Great or Bad. He is too big a risk & not reliable IMO.

    And I want a Video that in the last 2-3 years when has a Counter Attack initiated by a GK resulted in a goal. I cant remember one,atleast in a major tournament. But since you follow Oranje way more than me,post a video to show how GK's have contributed heavily due to counters under Bert.
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    If Steks is healthy he will start because BvmBvm doesn't change his thinking at ask Krul will be nun number two since he is better on the ball
     
  3. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That's all well, but basically you say he has a mental problem while I think he is mentally one of the strongest persons out there. There was a a piece of research in the Volkskrant where they looked at all kids that went early to England and the conclusion after filtering through dozens of kids, only Krul made the first team. He is a kid that stands up for himself and is quite brave in his keeping. I also explained to you that for example against Chelsea he did concede 3 goals and still was MoTM. You can't look at a score alone or put some fictional limit on a keeper to how many times a high scoring game is allowed to happen and when he has crossed that limit, there would be something wrong with him. Every other keeper would have conceded 7 or 8 goals in that game.

    I think this is a typical case of correlation is not causality. Your claim suggest a mental issue and I don't deem that plausible with him. Krul is a winner. He does move unconventional, then again Vorm's calmness was nowhere with the goal he conceded against Tunesia and for his club team when he passed the ball in the opponents feet who then had an easy score. I value certain traits different and think when we are down with 10 men we can't have a small guy defending corners and crosses. You do.

    Oh you want a video? You feel entitled? I don't think you are.
     
  4. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    This has nothing to do with mental grit or strength. Krul panicks when his team lets in goals & I have seen. What he does apart from football is his issue. Standing up for himself or Whatever Bullshit I dont care. In the goal he does not give much security after conceding a goal that is my problem.

    And I dont think there exists any VIDEO whatsoever where a Counter Attack initiated by a GK resulted in a goal in any sort of meaningful match under BVM.
     
  5. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Stek will be nr 1, but I am not sure Krul is nr 2. I think Vorm still is. I have no problem with Vorm's distribution. It's not bad actually. I have a problem the speed he does it and his lethargic bringing back of the ball in the game, missing all kinds off nice situations to benefit from. It takes the speed out of the game, it sets a mood as it trickles down the team and I got annoyed the times he has played for us in this department.
     
  6. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    How people respond to crisis situations (team conceding) also belongs to the the area of mental strength. How they bounce back. I have seen Krul conceding a goal against Yaya Toure and after that the guy went 1 vs 1 against him and Krul saved the occasion by throwing him for the guy in a good manner (not causing a penalty). He then causes Aguero to fail a 100% chance. He conceded only when his defender got turned on and Toure could smash it in from up close.

    The validation for this road and choosing keepers over one and the other, is not found in examples but finds it root in statistical truths.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Notice the ratio of the Orange bar. Goals from quick brakes are the most effective ways of scoring a goal per attempt apart from penalty's obviously. That comes from moments of disorganization of the other team. This turnover situation can happen in the middle of the field but also after they have missed a chance and it's up to the keeper to benefit from the moments of disorganization. Van Gaal's whole theory evolves around these moments.

    Apart from this, IMO keepers are important factors in setting a certain pace. That pace can mean the difference between lethargic game play and a goal, directly or indirectly. Vorm's pace setting is damaging chances. I recall many moments of frustration in the Dutch NT. Your point is irrelevant from a statistical point of view of way's of how to create chances and goals. From the way how Vorm is bringing back those balls in the game, I see no way how we could benefit from above stats. When he starts behaving differently, this argument falls away, but not until that happens.

    I think we will have to agree to disagree on this point.
     
  7. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Did I miss something? When did Schaars become a proficient left fullback?
     
  8. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yep. Schaars rocks on left back. Played 45 minutes against England and according to Bert didn't do bad.

    This is what Nani and Ronaldo think about it:

    [​IMG]


    Muller is like: "Gnaw, are they serious over there in Holland?" and Badstuber is like:"Yeah, yes they are"


    [​IMG]





    Bert got this one. :thumbsup:
     
  9. nve2k

    nve2k Member

    Jun 19, 2004
    Unfortunately, I still think the fullback positions, as weak and thin they are looking right now, will be a major contributor to our attacking game. The last time we had two natural/fast paced attacking fullbacks was in 98 (M. Reiziger and A. Numan). The difference that makes, in terms of allowing more space and taking attention away from the wingers is monumental. Dangerous/accurate crosses could come in from any of the 4 players (de Boer, Reiziger, Overmars, Numan). Combination plays amongst the 4 always create trouble and opposition are always wary of committing too many players forward. Imagine having a player of the caliber of Dani Alves, for example, attacking the right wing with Robben.

    Last WC, VDW was still rather young and showed a bit of inconsistency and Gio was reaching the end of his career. I hope VDW's game has picked up in the last 2 years and he doesn't get suspended/injured, since I guess his cover is Boulahrouz :eek:. For the leftback position, in the upcoming friendlies, I would throw all the following players in the fold (Kuijt, Affellay, Anita, Willems, N. de Jong (if Strootman is good enough to start, although I prefer de Jong in midfield)) and see who works out best. As other posters said, speed and workrate are as important as defending here.
     
  10. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Seedorf to Botafogo? Bit of a shame IMO that he won't retire w/ Milan. Ah well, he can do whatever he wants, and if going to Brazil is what he wants, then more power to him. Probably one of his most impressive stats is 21 seasons, 0 red cards and only 15 yellow
     
  11. EURO2004PEREIRA

    Apr 15, 2012
    Club:
    Vitoria Guimaraes
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Sporting CP signed Shaars for less then a mill what a steal
     
  12. EURO2004PEREIRA

    Apr 15, 2012
    Club:
    Vitoria Guimaraes
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    and what you guys think about de guzman in segunda
     
  13. nve2k

    nve2k Member

    Jun 19, 2004
    Stupendous

    Dunno....BvM never considered him for the NT....what do you think?
     
  14. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Actually, he was called up once.
    But we have much better options.. even in his age groupe.
     
  15. onzie77

    onzie77 Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    May 18, 2012
    miami
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    yes, i think van wolfswinkel, not for now, but for the world cup needs to be tracked, and roel brouwers has been awesome, i'm new to these forums, but i feel he should have gotten called up.
    and who has seen Gouweleeuw i think he's the center back of the future.

    if anyone wants to see schaars play in the portugal cup, he's playing today, it's a final 12:00pm NEW York Eastern Standard time USA, which Holland is like 6 hours ahead, So around 6 pm, So many live streaming sites to watch it from. So something to possibly watch for, i'm watching it after the vitesse vs rkc game ends, or vitesse score a lot of goals, then it's academic and i will just watch the start of the game, Watch Schaars and Van Wolfswinkel
     
    he so scrumptiouz repped this.
  16. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    according to onzie's (who I'm assuming is the same as onzie77 here) comment on the latest netherlands.worldcupblog.org article, Schaars played LB in the second half of Sporting's game today and played well
     
  17. onzie77

    onzie77 Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    May 18, 2012
    miami
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    yes thats me, and he did, although there was one worrying thing, he was beaten by a guy dribbling past him and he fouled him. offensively he did awesome, and he intercepted every ball in the air. and he would link up with diego capel, and unleash crosses, but there was nobody there, and van wolfswinkel was wasteful.
     
    TFC Ajax repped this.
  18. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I wonder what Dost is going to do career wise. All I hear is Wolfsburg, but maybe I would like him in EPL more. What club would people like him to move to?
     
  19. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Any team with good wingers. IMO Tottenham could use a finisher like him, but I dont think he'd be given time there. Or maybe he should stay with Heerenveen and get us some coefficient points in the EL
     
  20. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Maher chooses for Netherlands

    However, it does not mean anything. Of course when he makes the final selection and van Marwijk calls upon him to get in the game from the bench, he will not say: "Nope, I have still not made up my mind". Obviously he had to say something about his commitment to eventually get in the field when needed.

    However he says he is committed, also in the case he is dropped and belongs to the final 4 not making it, to the Netherlands.

    I see this as a good step. I only don't know if games in friendly's make it definitive or that he has to play a competitive NT game first.

    On a side note

    When he came in training with the NT he all of the sudden started to talk about wanting to make a move to a new club. Only weeks or months ago he was committed to AZ. Now this.
     
  21. onzie77

    onzie77 Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    May 18, 2012
    miami
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Van Marwijk has that effect on players, Same thing with Elia, he kept saying, you have to play regularly for your team, Now Elia wants to move to a different team. Which he should, He should be on the wings with Robben. He's like a master of convincing players. But where would maher end up? I think he should stay in Holland till he's 22, then leave for some big team.
     
  22. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Elia is a ridiculous talent. His crossing,passing or goal scoring maybe not brilliant but his speed & dribbling ability are just insane. I would have picked Elia over Narsingh or Ola with my eyes close. If you want a new burst of energy with searing pace down a flank I would choose Elia over Afellay.

    He made a bad move to go to Juventus & is now paying for it.
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  24. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Lets see how glad they are when he dribbles past their defenders.
     
    vagegast repped this.
  25. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    good thing Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Muller, and Gomez all play for Germany because they choked a lot harder than Robben did. I can't wait for Robben to destroy them
     
    vagegast repped this.

Share This Page