Dutch NT - Tracking players for the next campaign

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by demeer, Mar 31, 2016.

  1. demeer

    demeer New Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    So as we all know and have gotten used to, Oranje are taking a summer vacation this year. Some of our players are starting to show signs of wear and tear, have out lived their usefulness or have moved on. As it's time to start thinking about what the squad needs to look like for the next campaign as well as how we blood a new generation of players to fill that gap left by a missing generation how about we track what we think the national pool for the first team should look like. I'll start here by dropping some names, NB I have excluded Robben (as we need to find his replacement asap), Sneijder (too slow now), Huntelaar (similar) and Van Persie (not playing). Some of the names below are injured but they would be in consideration under normal circumstance, so players under 28, if it's easier we can track the players by position in separate threads?

    GK
    Cillessen
    Krul
    Zoet
    Hahn
    van der Hart

    RB
    Tete
    Janmaat
    Kevin Diks
    Karsdorp
    Hateboer
    Brenet

    LB
    Willems
    Ake
    Zeegelaar
    Pieters
    Dijks
    van Aanholt

    CB
    de Vrij
    van Dijk
    Riedewald
    Veltman
    Bruma
    Rekik
    Letschert
    van Beek
    Kongolo
    Hoedt
    Martins Indi

    CM
    Bazoer
    Blind
    Strootman
    van Ginkel
    Clasie
    Klaassen
    Wijnaldum
    Propper
    Sinkgraven
    Hendrix
    Ayoub
    de Vilhena

    Wings
    Promes
    Depay
    El Ghazi
    Boetius
    Narsingh
    Kishna

    ST
    Janssen
    de Jong
    Dost
    Locadia
     
  2. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    For me by the time the WC comes around maybe something like this?

    Tete - de Vrij - Blind - Willems
    Ake
    Propper - Strootman
    Promes - Janssen - Bergwijn​
     
  3. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No midfielder capable of scoring a goal? I haven't seen Ake enough to make any judgement. Pröpper is too slow and I don't think can play at the highest level and of course Strootman's knees will always be a question. I think we have to do better than these three.
     
  4. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    I like it, except for Ake who I think is shit
     
  5. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yea @Frysk Bloed put Fer on for Ake and Strootman can sit deep!
    I would use a keeper as well ;)

    Separate threads for tracking players by position could be a little overkill.. and does it get tricky? for instance, when is the last time Ake played DM? Looks like 18 mins last May v WBA in a 0-3 loss. Not much minutes at top level.. and of the 3 positions he has played he has played more as both LB and CB. If he plays there more in the next 2 years I wouldn't be opposed to it. But then where do we talk about Ake? He's actually been great this season.. as a LB!
    I'd also like Blind to stay away from DM/CM unless he is playing well there at club level at that time.

    Anyways... Keepers are pretty good. Finally, I think our defensive options are getting decent. Not a lot of depth with our forwards, but it will come. So to me the most important thing is to build and nurture a strong midfield.
    It seems a bit like we went to 5 at the back since we had a weak looking midfield, and now our midfield can't perform well anyways because there is no space to work with and less forward options with 5 defenders hanging around lookin unsure on where exactly to be. Let's get back to 433/4231 or even 442 and get back to creating space and playing attacking football, not this stay at home/ counter-attacking shit.

    For the defensive side of things I would love for Strootman to shake off his injury problems and be the dominating CM/DM he was becoming. Might be a big ask, but we'll see. I have faith, since he seems to have a lot of mental strength! Another quality we seek to lack atm.
    Would be nice to see Clasie gain some confidence and keep some fitness, was annoying to see him yanked off after 45 v France in the 532 and then not used at all in the 433 v England, which suits him better.
    I can see Bazoer making some big strides in 2 years.
    Can Hendrix Vejinovic and/or Ayoub make the step? Is de Roon good enough?

    I agree that it's hard to see Sneijder being effective after 2 more seasons from now...
    By the WC18 Nouri will be 21, too early for him.
    I like Fer, Wijnaldum and Pröpper are pretty good. I like van Ginkel and Klaassen as well, not sure they can be world class but can be useful. Have also liked Vilhena at times recently and like to think he will improve a bunch yet too.
    Apparently Afellay can do a job. Sometimes Chery looks good, but hard to tell with QPR and he'll be 30 by then. Maher seems to be lost, Sinkgraven can't get consistent playing time but a lot can happen for them in 2+ years.

    Ugh so bummed the next major tournament for us is so far away... I still have not gotten used to it :(
     
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  6. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    It's not that early if you have talent...Spain won EC 2008 with Fabregas, Ramos, Silva etc. being 21-22.

    I had such a conversation with dutch fans saying the problem of dutch football was young talents leaving for big clubs at the age of 21-22-23...It's bullshit in my opinion, if you're not ready for a big club at that age, when will you be ?

    Football has evolved a lot...France, Spain, Germany, Brazil etc. have players of 18-19-20 being starters in big clubs.

    That's why I worry about Nouri and Bergwijn not being able to play with Ajax and PSV while being already 19. Remember Robben, Sneijder and VDV were starters at that age.

    Bazoer has been following a good path so far, he should stay one year more and sign directly for a big club. No Newcastle or Southampton.
     
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  7. Rinus127

    Rinus127 Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Given the current level of the Eredivisie , a very talented player should be able to make his debut at the age of 17. Nouri Bergwijn and others begin to lag behind their colleagues of the same age . Dominic Solanke , Erwin Mbappé , Leroy Sane , Cameron Rashford play regularly . Even Fosu -Mensah made his debut with Manchester when he was younger.
    We need early accustom our young players to the demands of professional football . Use Nouri as a substitute seems to me more relevant than Serero .
     
  8. Rinus127

    Rinus127 Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Martins Indi should be recalled. All young defenders have made mistakes in their infancy. Nothing justifies its sidelining . I pray that Strootman found his old form . Quincy Promes is a real surprise to me. Ayoub deserves a chance. And do not forget Tete Riedewald (the future
    best Dutch defender ) . All is not to throw.
    But it will take time , lots of time and appariton of new emerging stars.
     
  9. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Lots of question marks in the midfield... but I am hopeful that (1) Clasie and Wijnaldum will continue to be more reliable in their subsequent years in EPL, (2) Van Ginkel and Strootman will regain their fitness and form, and (3) Bazoer will make a leap after his full-season debut. I think that group (+Sneijder) should be considered as a "core" and will give us a few permutations that may work just fine.

    Then there will be other role players... Klaassen, Propper, Afellay, etc. They won't be first choices, but can give depths and options. Lastly, maybe 1 or 2 youngsters who will force themselves to the surface.. Ayoub, Nouri, Vilhena. Will be a nice bonus if this happens.
     
  10. demeer

    demeer New Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    For me I look at our defensive options and think they will be ok as they get more game experience outside of the dutch leagues and the same goes for the wings.

    We have some solid if unspectacular central midfield options, we don't have (at the moment) a Davids like midfielder, or any particularly creative options (van der vaart, sneijder) which does concern me, but we seem to have less and less competition for the forward positions.

    In 98 we had Kluivert, Bergkamp, Van Hooijdonk and Hasselbaink, six years later we still had Kluivert, Van Hooijdonk, Makaay and van Nistelrooy however since then we have only really had Van Persie and Huntelaar come through. I don't see de jong or dost ever raising to the level of being an international level striker and I have no idea why suddenly the Netherlands has stopped producing pure goal scorers.
     
  11. nurvin

    nurvin Member

    Feb 11, 2011
    It's a bit early so some new players will come by 2018. Nouri and Bergwijn can make the squad if they will start to play regulary in their 1st team club.
     
  12. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Whats more important is that we need to think about our coaches.. KNVB's coaching system has to be revamped.. I'm afraid they are putting too much emphasis on assimilation and the collective in their education.. they need to teach their coaches to relax, give less directions during games, give players more freedom.

    I frankly don't see Bergwijn getting anywhere under Cocu, or Nouri under De Boer.
     
  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Agree completely. If FdB sees out his contract, Bazoer, Gudelj, and Klaassen are the starting midfielders next year. van de Beek & Nouri are substitutes and will see little action. What happens to Sinkgraven??
     
  14. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Afellay just banged one in for Stoke.

    1-0
     
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    What talent development can de Boer be credited with? What player has he launched to a greater career than projected so that he becomes of great value for the NT?

    Visa versa. Has he damaged careers of talents that we projected having a great future?
     
  16. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I believe he was one of the youth coaches at Ajax when before he took over for Jol but I cannot remember at what level or whether there were any players that he especially brought forward. Vertonghen, Alderwiereld, and Eriksen (of course all three are foreign despite spending time in the Ajax youth system) were all established players before FdB took over managing as was Siem de Jong but he is not especially a valued talent though he did get some NT call ups. Of the Dutch players Veltman, Riedewald, Dijks, Klaassen, Bazoer and el Ghazi all were given 1st team football at an ealry age and all have received call ups for the NT. Don't know how el Ghazi will turn out; Bazoer could be special; Riedewald has promise. Veltman, Dijks, and Klaassen are potential substitutes but not first team NT. van de Beek has seen first team football at Ajax because of injuries and is promising. As noted by TheKid, Nouri will only excel when FdB leaves Ajax.
     
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  17. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    Daley Blind ?
     
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  18. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He coached Klaassen's generation. I think he did B1 and A1, not sure.
    I didn't pay a lot of attention back then, The academy was at it's lowest point at that point.

    Non.

    I'm sure he'll go down in the textbooks as a good Dutch coach and one of the greats for Ajax, but as far as the NT is concerned, his contribution is 0.
     
  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    I believe DRB asked which talent development de Boer can be credited with :ROFLMAO:
     
  20. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    My bad I read "player" lol
     
  21. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I actually meant in the way Laurent took it. I see Ajax first team as very young and he himself (de Boer) tells to the cameras how Ajax is a talent development club where players can grow and take the next step. So my question is actually also right. Did not even consider his short time as a youth trainer.
     
  22. That may be so, but I like to see Dutch kids stay until they are a least 22-23. Just because the have to learn to play the Dutch way with the Dutch spirit. That isnot what they can get at big clubs abroad. We are what we are as a national team because we have an imprinted Dutch way lacking at clubs abroad. We seperate from other bigger countries just for that thing and were far more successful just for that undefinable ingredient. Kids moving abroad means loosing that magic touch and in the end means us going into mediocracy as a national team.
    What you call for in the end will kill us, not lift us.
     
  23. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    #23 Laurent75, Apr 3, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
    There was a real dutch print before Bosman I guess, but football is bastard nowadays. Atletico is an italian style team in Spain, Napoli doesn't play in an italian style at all...I don't think that leagues and countries have an identity nowadays, or in any case not as strong as before. It's just a big mix of nationalities, and if a german club can get a certain print and tactic from a spanish coach, they'll take it.

    How can Ajax, reputed for his very technical football and formation center, produce the likes of Klaassen, Siem De Jong, Blind...that play like british players. How did they teach them to play like that ? Probably dutch football was hurt after those losses in 98,2000 and non qualifying in 2002 while having great technical players that can't shot a penalty correctly, so the dutch coachs in general started to look for/accept players with low technical abilities but good work rate, like Klaassen.

    There were a lot of quality players in the Eredivisie before Bosman, now not anymore, so there's no sense to stay more than three years in the league.

    Look at a player like Eriksen, he started as a unexperienced kid, three years later (not more), he was like the experienced player that had to teach to the next generation. Three years are enough to explore the dutch league, every additionnal year is useless for me. Wijnaldum could leave a way earlier. 7 seasons of eredivisie didn't help him to sign for a big club.

    The sooner dutch players are in contact with high level players, the better it is.
     
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  24. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Strootman isnt getting any playing time now :(
     
  25. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Mensah just got a nice assist on the Martial 1-0.

    Horrible Everton defending though
     

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