Dutch clubs in European Silverware chase 2017-2018

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by feyenoordsoccerfan, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. The new season also is on for the European cups. FC Utrecht defeated the mighty ?? and now face Lech Poznan from Poland and PSV has to deal with Croatian NK Osijek.
    Ajax has the difficult task to get passed French OGC Nice.
    What do we expect?
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Because of the recent tragedy, it is difficult to figure out how Ajax do. they got a really bad draw (nothing new there as their recent CL group draws were always bad even when Gullit was pulling out the lots). I am not optimistic for this match and just hope that they can come away with a 0-0 draw.
     
  3. Given the bad results the top clubs of the French league digested in that stadium it will require a top effort of this Ajax with some vital inexperienced players. But hopefully the match is the perfect distraction to the sorrow of the last few weeks.
     
  4. Very good result for Ajax, especially given the first half when they werenot playing well. Wondering about the physical readyness of the French team for matches like this. Looked to me like Ajax had the upperhand physicaly.
     
  5. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Glad Ajax got the away goal. The Nice keeper looks shaky so perhaps a couple of more goals will come in Amsterdam. It's still going to be difficult to qualify as Hoffenheim are the only weak team in the next round if Ajax progress. Nethrlands need PSV and Utrecht to step up tomorrow in EL qualifying.
     
  6. I was under the impression this was the only hurdle between the Group stage for Ajax. This sucks. The next opponent isnot likely to get weaker.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It's been this way for the last couple of years because of the slipping UEFA coefficient for the league. The only good thing is that Ajax have a good rating because of the EL run last season (22 added points) and won't have to face Sevilla, Napoli or Liverpool (and perhaps Sporting) if they go through.
     
  8. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    We REALLY need Ajax to qualify, because we still have a ways to go before we catch Portugal in coefficient points :unsure:
     
  9. Certain pot fills

    Pot 1:

    Real Madrid
    Bayern München
    Chelsea
    Juventus
    Benfica
    AS Monaco
    Spartak Moskou
    Shakhtar Donetsk

    Pot 2
    Barcelona
    Atlético Madrid
    Paris Saint-Germain
    Borussia Dortmund
    Manchester City
    FC Porto
    Manchester United

    Pot 3
    Tottenham Hotspur
    FC Basel
    Anderlecht

    Pot 4
    AS Roma
    Besiktas
    Feyenoord
    RB Leipzig


    "Best" case scenario for Feyenoord:
    Pot 1: Spartak Moskou
    Pot 2: FC Porto
    Pot 3: FC Basel

    "Worst" case scenario for Feyenoord:
    Pot 1: Real Madrid
    Pot 2: PSG
    Pot 3: Tottenham/Liverpool

    or as worse:
    Pot 1: Bayern
    Pot 2: Barcelona
    Pot 3: Tottenham/Liverpool
    We would be extremely lucky if we would get my "best" case scenario.
     
  10. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^^Good luck on the draw. Ajax got poor draws each of the four years they qualified as Dutch champions.
     
  11. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    PSV lose at home 0-1 to a Croatian side I've never heard of and Utrecht in a scoreless draw. Not looking good for Dutch coefficient if these teams cannot progress. Cocu might get sacked if they lose the away tie.
     
  12. Oh dear, what a shit show this evening.
     
  13. FC Utrecht managed to squeeze them selfs into the play off round and now faces Zenith St Petersburg. Oh dear.
    Ajax faces Rosenborg.
     
  14. Rinus127

    Rinus127 Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    FC Utrecht so far dominant against Zenit, which is impressive in itself, but given mutations in squad even more so. Ten Hag is a top coach.
     
  15. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ...and Utrecht win 1-0!! Major win for them.
     
  16. From what I hear they missed major chances. Hope they will not regret it. At least they have got a clean sheet.
     
  17. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    It looks like a pretty dire for Dutch football and the coefficient this year unless Vitesse and Feyenoord can perform miracles.
     
  18. Vitesse has an interesting group:
    Lazio, OGC Nice en Zulte Waregem.

    NOS Teletekst 815
    OETBAL
     Vitesse loot Lazio,Nice en Zulte
    
     Vitesse neemt het in de groepsfase
    van de Europa League op tegen Lazio,
    OGC Nice en Zulte Waregem.

    Lazio eindigde als vierde in Italië.De
    club van De Vrij en Kishna trof vier
    keer eerder een Nederlandse ploeg:winst
    en verlies tegen PSV (2001) en verlies
    en een remise tegen Feyenoord (2000).
    Sneijders Nice,de Franse nummer drie
    van vorig jaar,schakelde deze maand
    Ajax uit in de CL-voorronde:1-1 en 2-2.

    Zulte Waregem,met de Nederlander Walsh
    en de Belgische oud-Vitessenaar Kaya,
    trof driemaal een Nederlandse opponent:
    0-3 tegen Ajax (2006) en 0-2 en 0-3
    tegen PSV (2013).Zulte Waregem werd
    vorig seizoen zesde en won de beker.
     
  19. Vitesse is in an interesting group:

    Lazio, OGC Nice en Zulte Waregem.

    NOS Teletekst 815
    OETBAL
     Vitesse loot Lazio,Nice en Zulte
    
     Vitesse neemt het in de groepsfase
    van de Europa League op tegen Lazio,
    OGC Nice en Zulte Waregem.

    Lazio eindigde als vierde in Italië.De
    club van De Vrij en Kishna trof vier
    keer eerder een Nederlandse ploeg:winst
    en verlies tegen PSV (2001) en verlies
    en een remise tegen Feyenoord (2000).
    Sneijders Nice,de Franse nummer drie
    van vorig jaar,schakelde deze maand
    Ajax uit in de CL-voorronde:1-1 en 2-2.

    Zulte Waregem,met de Nederlander Walsh
    en de Belgische oud-Vitessenaar Kaya,
    trof driemaal een Nederlandse opponent:
    0-3 tegen Ajax (2006) en 0-2 en 0-3
    tegen PSV (2013).Zulte Waregem werd
    vorig seizoen zesde en won de beker.


    NOS Teletekst 817
    OETBAL
     Europa League/groep K
    
    Donderdag 14 september:
    VITESSE - Lazio -
    Zulte Waregem - OGC Nice -
    Donderdag 28 september:
    OGC Nice - VITESSE -
    Lazio - Zulte Waregem -
    Donderdag 19 oktober:
    Zulte Waregem - VITESSE -
    OGC Nice - Lazio -

    Donderdag 2 november:
    VITESSE - Zulte Waregem -
    Lazio - OGC Nice -
    Donderdag 23 november:
    Lazio - VITESSE -
    OGC Nice - Zulte Waregem -
    Donderdag 7 december:
    VITESSE - OGC Nice -
    Zulte Waregem - Lazio -
     
  20. I hope Vitesse performs better in the EL than this match against AZ. They were swamped by the AZ attacks.
    Watched the BBC highlights of ManCity against Bournemouth. Ake wasnot impressive.
    What was surprising is the defensive vulnerability of ManCity. That guy in the centre next to Kompany isnot very reliable. Hope we can exploit that.
     
  21. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Both Holland and Belgium are having a nightmare in Europe. At least with the draw Vitesse and Essevee shared the points even though it helps neither Holland's nor Belgium's coefficient.

    => This season's champions of Holland will enter in the 3rd qualifying round next year (Champions route), instead of a direct spot in the CL group phase (which last season's champions received). That direct CL spot would have been regained if the current nightmare in Europe hadn't been this bad.

    - Holland will be overtaken by at least one country (2017/18 ranking) ... Austria is about to do it but also Czech Rep., Greece and Switzerland are closing in fast ... Basel will probably earn those 5 bonus points for the qualification to the next CL round (Switzerland is virtually above Greece now)

    - possibly Holland's 2017/18 ranking drops even further ... 13th place means an extra CL qualifying round for the champions of Holland

    => This season's Dutch cup winners also have lost out on a direct EL spot compared to last season's cup winners ... due to the current nightmare in Europe Holland could again fall short of 12th place (no direct EL spot and an extra qualifying round for the 3rd placed team)

    - Holland could be overtaken by two of Austria, Czech Rep., Greece and Switzerland ... it will be very tight to grab 12th place and a direct EL spot
     
  22. What we saw this round with Feyenoord and Vitesse is the big law of European top football that a chance must be taken. Feyenoord with a win could all of a sudden had been in a position with chances to become second, but we needed several chances to get one goal and Sjachtar needed 2 for 2. The same you saw in the Vitesse match.
    Chances wasted. Worse, position in the UEFA coefficient ranking wasted.
     
  23. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    When the reorganization of the CL takes place, Italy, Germany, England, and Spain all get four guaranteed places in the group play. Add in the other guaranteed places and it's always looked bleak for Dutch clubs. Only sure way to get in going forward would be to win the Europa League but as we saw with Ajax last season that is difficult if a top tier team such as ManU makes it to the final of that competition. Look at this season, Arsenal will be fighting their tails off to win the EL.

    CL is only for the richest of the clubs and nothing will change that. Remember Financial Fair Play? Clubs have only gotten a mild slap on the hands for violations. the whole system of football is pretty corrupt these days.
     
  24. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #24 Blondo, Oct 20, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
    If Ajax had won the EL final Holland would still have been ranked 13th (2016/17 Ranking). PSV advancing from their CL group, a while back, helped a lot to avoid a bigger drop. It could have been worse than 13th place (i.e. Holland were in danger of being limited to 4 teams in Europe with 1 instead of 2 teams in the CL Q rounds). Ajax don't need to win the EL final but all Dutch clubs that compete in Europe have to improve their results ... even with one club rambo-ing it, others need to chip in too.

    The impact of the Champions League 2018-2021 reform will be felt starting this season (of the domestic competition). The reform won't harm Holland (in Europe) next year ... on the contrary Holland has gained from it ... i.e. softer League Route opponents ... clubs from the top 4 countries won't be in the play-offs anymore, e.g. since the reform you don't need to beat Man Utd to get into the CL group phase ... here's one of my earlier posts about it.
     
  25. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013

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