Don't tell me that the VAR Thread is still going?

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by EruditeHobo, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 EruditeHobo, Jun 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
    Cameroon whining display — sorry, you’re offside lady. Take it up with the rulebook. Hand out yellows for players throwing a fit, send them off. You being mad doesn’t mean your right. A good lesson for VAR in general maybe.

    Brazil - France offside — sideline ref ********ed up the call, no involvement in play, not obviously in eyeline, goal given. Good job VAR.

    Brazil - France keeper incident — player keeper ball arrive at nearly the same time. If that is not a textbook 50/50 up to refs discretion I’d love to know what is? For me I would have given the goal but it depends on the ref and what’s being reviewed, which is not always information that is given to spectators.

    Right team seemed to go through in the end.

    Except they did, because the ref crew missed it.

    The competency label applies both ways. Competent refs wouldn’t be taking 3-4 minutes for most of these calls either.
     
  2. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    If any part of the torsos or thighs are overlapping, onside. Just like a ball going over the goal line or out touch - any overlap, no matter how slight, and the ball is still in play.

    And since we've debated elsewhere about how to get rid of dumb penalties being given for diving when players are in non-goal threatening situations in the box, I just kind of stumbled upon on an idea randomly. Here goes:
    Reduce the size of the box. Instead of 18 yards from both posts, measure 18 yards from the center of the goal. The box really has no function being so big since goalkeepers aren't roaming around picking up back passes or collecting throw-ins with their hands.
    Or if we don't want to do that, create those two four yard alleys on either side of the box in which all fouls are simply given as direct kicks on goal with no defenders between the ball and the goal.
     
  3. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    For a while now you've been preaching that the AR keep the flag down for offside let VAR do it. Well VAR did their job and got one right.
    If the AR had been allowed to raise her flag, it was a simple call.
    The ref did make the call and it was Goal. VAR f'cked that one up. When the word came down with their reasoning they "claimed" the the keeper had control of the ball. Even you could see that was bull pucky.
    The comms, the experts in the studio with their replays even did.
    Seems you reluctantly got that right. :)
     
  4. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    #4 usscouse, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    VAR takes the news again.
    Watched the U21 game. Austria v Germany. Another controversy over a PK there. High ball floated into the box. The German keeper, eye on the ball makes a huge leap to collect it. An Austrian attacker running in. Not going for the ball. Doesn't jump for it just gets on the way and gets flattened. Penalty from the ref. backed up by VAR.

    Two comms and the halftime panel call BS.
    The penalty was scored and counts. The difference between a win and a draw for Germany.

    A lot of people who supported var are having second thoughts.

    .
     
  5. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    VAR = continued poor subjective decisions, but with the added benefits of constant confusion + wasted time + totally po'd fans.
     
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  6. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I wonder how a fan poll would go at this point - the most recent ones I can find are over a year old ......
     
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  7. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I'm talking about the sideline ref that did raise her flag and incorrectly rule out the equalizing goal in Brazil-France match, which VAR then had to fix. Like it's done a gigantic number of times over the past 3 years.

    Yeah... just like the linesperson in the above example raised her flag saying it was offside. But she was incorrect. The big difference is it's obviously harder to judge and clattering together in the box than it is whether or not an attacker is slightly ahead of the 2nd to last defender, that's always where interpretations come in whereas with offside you're just looking at a screen with a binary outcome based on obvious evidence.

    Either way I already said I'd personally have given the goal post-VAR... but to suggest it's some obvious call I think is disingenuous. I can't think of many clearer 50/50 tough calls, it's just a hard one to get clearly right no matter what, for me. Obviously your mileage may vary.
     
  8. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    #8 usscouse, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    It seems to be that your post echoes the main thoughts and conversations of fans of the sport after every game that I have seen recently.
    Is that the way it's supposed to be?

    When I've had a chance to chat with anyone about the WWC or the U21 VAR comes up before anything else.

    I'm hoping that when we get VAR in the prem this season that they could limit the amount of strangulation it has over the game. (It, giving VAR as an entity :))

    Perhaps just for rule items as in offside when the ref of AR could have missed it. Sometimes with the speed of the game it's hard to call. But the ref and AR should call what they see first.

    I understand that VAR is only to be used in certain situation but right now VAR has far to much control of the game. With people crying for it everyone someone falls over. It again being 3 fallable people watching telly. Give control back to the Ref.

    Too bad it's not something like the goaline checker the ref carries on his wrist. Instant on the pitch call. Instead of the long winded wait followed by the ref having to go and review the review.

    Then talking of long winded, I'll shut up now. :)
     
  9. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Personally like you I agreed with the refs call. Goal. Especially after the replay.
    I was just stating the comments of the TV comms and half time crew. They'd lost or losing confidence in VAR after being supporters of it. Derrick Rae a comm I respect. Then Lalas one I don't :) I didn't hear a single person call it the other way. So I don't think I was being that disingenuous.
     
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  10. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well OK, that's fair.
     
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  11. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Var takes away a sure penalty for the Swedes because the play leading up to it was offside.
     
  12. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    The box does possess the function of being the area that the goalkeeper can reasonably be expected to control.

    You couldn't really do that because a stuart pierce, roberto Carlos or John Arne Riise would score every time....
     
  13. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC

    There was a kooky one in the Colombia game where a guy remonstrated with the ref that he hadn't fouled the player. The ref gave him a yellow card for overdone annoyance.... VAR looked at it and overruled the foul. The ref then decided to rescind the yellow (which was incorrect because the guy got that for being abusive, which he was - even though he had every right to be pissed)...
    What would the ref have done had it been a second yellow.....and he'd sent the guy off...??
     
  14. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    terrible call.........
     
  15. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #15 EruditeHobo, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    I'm all for protecting keepers, but I have no idea how that's not a foul. Reverse the situation and think about what would happen if that was an attacker flying in with a knee against a keeper's head, what's the call then? It's a sending off, forget about debating whether it's a foul or not.
     
  16. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    This is mostly about the reffing at WCC but there is an interesting blurp on women's version of VAR.

    FIFA face calls to bring in male referees for Women's World Cup after ugly scenes marred England's win over Cameroon

    There are growing demands for FIFA to consider using both male and female referees at future Women's World Cups after Cameroon's behaviour on Sunday.

    Full Story:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...male-referees-officiate-Womens-World-Cup.html
     
  17. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    well done FIFA, go all-in on the sexism why dontcha? effing idiots. Blatter lives on !!
     
  18. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, you know, do you want credible referring or simply all-women refs? Some of them have been good, but the Chinese and Bulgarian refs should be doing U-9's. The German ref was very good and easily in command of her game.
     
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  19. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Why did they close the other VAR thread?
    *** *********** ************ ****************
    Back to this thing- for Hobo....


    It is of no use whatsoever analyzing this number which included vast amounts of games where VAR doesn't happen...
    Actually it is of great use, because people want to know what the overall effect of VAR is over a great number of matches. You can say it's of no use, but that's flat out incorrect. This is a measurement of VAR stoppage in the real world, the amount of time we can expect VAR to affect our club during the course of the season -- average is 55 seconds, let's just round up to 1 minute. 38 minutes per prem season is the effect of introducing VAR.

    It's amazing this needs to be parsed to this degree. If you find no use for that I don't know what to tell you, but it's a useful thing to know. Especially! if you want to improve VAR... this baseline is useful to know if for some reason any individual data set has a much higher or lower number... what are they doing right (or wrong) to cause such a fluctuation?

    These are good things to know. You not recognizing this, is once again, not relevant.
    ******* *** ********* *******************

    Averages like that might be fine for you to use as indicators of how often we'll be bored across a season, and extrapolate from that that it evens out somehow in the mind because of that -- but I have to tell you, that is ludicrous, most people only care about VAR stoppages insofar as they are actually happening, not when they are not.
    When one is repulsed by VAR one does not start wallowing in the idea that it is somehow not so bad really ... because it wasn't happening last week and probably won't happen next week either. This averaging measurement, as I said in the other thread is utterly meaningless.
    When you have a headache, for example - your immediate thought isn't -we;ll, this is really okay, because usually I don't have it - in fact 99.99% of the time I don't have one, so this is okay....
    Which is basically what your theory of VAR averages is saying.

    But you are free to choose to believe otherwise......
     
  20. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When the thread hits 1000 posts they are supposed to be closed.
     
  21. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    but that decision is now up for review .....
     
  22. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
  23. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC

    does it count as 1000 if 50% of it is a few of us repeating ourselves??
    ;)
     
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  24. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hahahahahahaha
     
  25. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    It seems to me that most of the VAR arguments in the other thread about what could be addressed seem to start from an erroneous proposition that there are only two possibles:
    a). What VAR addresses.
    b). What does not count for discussion because VAR does not address it.
    But the fact is that there are not just two variant ways of looking at this. There are the two above and there is the one where it obviously COULD be addressed by VAR IF the VAR rules were to simply be changed to be so constituted. How much change the system could bear is debatable (and eminently so).
     

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