How does anyone expect a coach to say this to his team when they are performing well and the other team isn't? What sense does this make to ask a team to stop doing something they have been trained to do? They don't stop scoring in the real world. Not in the MLB, NBA, MLS, or NFL. Kids see this. How dumb do we look to them when we ask them to stop scoring? How is that not insulting to the other team that their opponent simply gives up trying to score because they have given up trying to play. I say punish them with as many goals as possible. I say teach them a lesson that everyone can learn from, which is that in the real world YOU KEEP SCORING. I want a clear, definite answer from you on this one: Do you support the "Don't Score Anymore" mentality? Yes or No. Please explain your answer. Let's get to the bottom of this. I think you all know where I stand.
I think that it could depend on the age group, level of the competition, etc. I agree that when professionals play against each other, one does not have a duty to be "merciful" (though in practice a team would often take the foot off the pedal in order to conserve energy or would simply decide to give some of the fringe players a chance). The same may not necessarily apply to competitions involving kids (given their vulnerable psyche and the emphasis on learning the correct moves rather than attaining a certain result). As for myself, I would certainly feel uneasy if I got the impression that my opponents were not trying their best against my team. Btw, not sure whether you have come across this article, but just in case: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/basketball/2009-01-25-coach-fired_N.htm I don't really follow basketball, but it seems as if there are different conventions (in comparison to those in football): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_up_the_score
If you are European then you won't have any idea what I'm talking about. This is an American rule I wish to discuss here. This is an American mentality, that oddly enough they choose to apply to only one sport: soccer. They don't stop scoring in any other sport for any reason, but they literally penalize soccer teams who score too many goals. In AYSO, the most basic level of soccer in the US, a team which scores more than 5 goals on an opponent must wait until the opposing team scores on them before they can score again, or that team is penalized for every goal they score after 5. Referees ask coaches to tell their teams to stop scoring if they think the score is "out of control". Even in All Stars, which is the highest level of AYSO, referees still request that coaches stop their teams from scoring. This mentality is completely backwards, and only serves to confuse the children. Furthermore, it is an insult to the game. There is no Mercy Rule in this sport, and I am tired of people trying to tell me that there is one. It does not exist, no matter how many people pretend it does. If America is ever to get better at this sport, the "Don't Score Anymore" mentality must be the first "rule" to go. I say if you can keep scoring, keep scoring. Vote "No" if you think teams should keep scoring regardless. Vote "Yes" if you think teams should stop scoring on weaker teams. And I'd like to talk this out, not just have a vote.
Yeah, but that is about little kids in the AYSO, where really big mismatches between two teams can take place on any Saturday, for whatever reasons; I've seen it happen myself and it's done only for the purpose of not killing the pride and the will of some little kids losing by 17 goals. -- However, this can only happen at this level. Once they start growing up and teams are more evenly matched (college), they quickly become acquainted with exactly the opposite, which is soccer's sad and crude reality: the sport with the most poor scoring of all sports, where is ridiculous to EVER ask not to score. And, BTW, they DO stop scoring in the NFL (not in college football, though, because of the needed big ratings). I am quite aware of this practice in the NFL. When a team has total control and it's really beating the you-know-what on another team, it's considered a lack of class to pound additional (and needless) scoring on the poor ba....ds. Besides, there WILL be a second game at THEIR place in the future and they'll be waiting to do the same to you, if they can, so you stop your passing game and then start running the ball instead, without much intention of doing further damage and the game becomes a total bore. Seen it a thousand times. So, to conclude this here, I truly don't understand how can anybody ask about "supporting don't score any more mentality, or not" when this is a soccer forum...soccer, as in the lowest scoring sport that ever existed. ManU, when Berva scored 5 himself (total 7?), or the 8 that Barca scored on Almeria (?). No. You don't stop on soccer. Too few goals to begin with. Let them come when the soil is fertile.
Finally a response! Thank you! I will begin by saying that kids don't have pride. Adults do. Kids have feelings, and what we're talking about is not hurting those feelings, and I do get that part of the debate. After all, I am not heartless. Second, their feelings will get hurt if they lose, regardless of the score. In fact, I would say that losing a close game hurts more than being blown out. Third, NFL teams have the luxury of putting in their second and third strings, whereas everyone plays in AYSO, so they've basically handcuffed themselves. Just one of the many backwards rules they apply to this game. Such a shame. What I believe this is really about is parents coddling their children. My argument is that it weakens the talent pool and the sport. It displays ignorance, disrespect, and does not help anyone (including the kids being protected). I would further propose that if AYSO were not allowing lopsided teams (which we all know they do!), there would be even matchups and less emphasis on NOT SCORING. Kids are smart, and they realize when another team is showing them mercy. And, in this game, that is the ultimate disrespectful display. Let's not train them to give up. Let's train them to handle adversity. How about that idea?
AYSO begins pretty young, dude. I coached a group of U-6 kids a couple of years ago. We won all but three of our games. Two of those loses were blowouts, but I'm sure the kids forgot all the scores (win or lose) by the time they got home. They have a 10-goal margin mercy rule in Georgia high school ball (coached there, too), and IMO the teams we beat to an early ending looked like they felt worse than the ones who lost 7-0 or 8-0. I don't know how I feel about the mercy rule, but I think a rule telling players not to score is silly at any level. BTW- Your contention that a rule does not exist because FIFA doesn't apply it to their sanctioned games at any age level is not well thought out. Different organizations can make their own rules. No one else has to accept them in their own organizations, but if the rule exists for anyone, it exists. FIFA allows lopsided matchups (thru some clubs having access to much more money) over the course of a league season. The logical conclusion of your argument is that parents ought to be able to stack teams anyway they can, within the rules of the league. I'm not saying AYSO is doing the right thing by all the kids. But if you're gonna roll with FIFA, roll with 'em. All the way. Agreed there. It does seem strange that no other HS sport (and no other youth league sport that I can think of right off my head) has this kind of mercy rule. I do wonder how it came to be in this sport. I suspect that maybe there's a bigger difference between the best and worst teams in scholastic soccer than in other sports because soccer's still so tied in with culture and income here. I don't know if that's true, or if true, whether it's the reason the mercy rule exists, tho. I'll add that you're not taking into consideration the reason a lot of parents get their kids involved in soccer. It's not the same long-term process of bringing their children up in preparation for representing their families and serving their community thru (among other ways) athletic competition like playing football for Permian or Valdosta. They just want them to be fit and bright-eyed for AP Phonics, if you get my drift.
We have a local USSF competitive league that has a mercy rule. If the winning team wins by more than 10 goals, the three points for the "win" goes to the losing team. I did two games this past summer where one team was up 9 to 0 early in the 2nd half and played keep away the rest of the way. Two of the least enjoyable games I have ever done. (its only my first year ) Both losing teams had their keeper come out and play the field because they knew the other team wasn't going to score. When I do U-littles indoor with an electronic scoreboard, I stop putting up goals if one team gets more than 5 ahead. When kids are learning or out for fun, I don't think the final score is important. But in a competitive league, I think its ridicules. If your team isn't ready to play in a league, look else ware or suffer the consequences. BTW, I voted NO! Mark.
First things first. Don't "dude" me. Makes me think I'm talking to a kid. Am I? Hope not. "I'm sure the kids forgot all the scores (win or lose) by the time they got home." Yep. That's my point. We agree. "...IMO the teams we beat to an early ending looked like they felt worse than the ones who lost 7-0 or 8-0." Again. Agreed. Losing by a close margin hurts more than getting blown out. "...a rule telling players not to score is silly at any level." Especially in a country where even the national team struggles to score! "Your contention that a rule does not exist because FIFA doesn't apply it to their sanctioned games at any age level is not well thought out. Different organizations can make their own rules. No one else has to accept them in their own organizations, but if the rule exists for anyone, it exists." It is not my contention. I'm talking about application. If any rule is not applied by most organizations, then in effect it does not exist. Plain and simple. Furthermore, I would say that any such "rule" is unnecessary and needs to be removed from the books, but that's another matter. "The logical conclusion of your argument is that parents ought to be able to stack teams anyway they can, within the rules of the league." That is not the logical conclusion of my argument. My point is that parents are doing this anyway, even though the stated goal of the governing body (AYSO) is even, fair teams. Parents, believe it or not, don't play by the rules, which is why they choose to obey or not obey certain rules, one of which is the policy of not scoring too many goals. It is a policy enforced by parents to make parents feel better, and has absolutely nothing to do with the children or their development or their feelings. "But if you're gonna roll with FIFA, roll with 'em. All the way." Nonsense. Again, I feel like I'm talking to a kid. No one agrees with everything FIFA says or does. Never have, never will. "I'll add that you're not taking into consideration the reason a lot of parents get their kids involved in soccer. It's not the same long-term process of bringing their children up in preparation for representing their families and serving their community thru (among other ways) athletic competition like playing football for Permian or Valdosta. They just want them to be fit and bright-eyed for AP Phonics, if you get my drift." I didn't get into that on purpose, as I feel that is a different thread altogether. Let's just say they don't enroll them in soccer programs to learn the game. "Kick it" and "run" don't constitute any type of real appreciation for the game. It's cheap babysitting for the most part. Anyway, I have a question for you: Ever heard of the Datagraphic Steamers?
I'm sure the losing team feels better about those 3 points after losing 12-0. There's simply no logic to it. None. If you lose, you get nothing. At least, that's how life works.
Well, there's always the juice box after the game, win or lose! Seriously though, In the four years I've been familiar with the league, I don't think any coach has given up those points for winning by more than 10, but there have been quite a few boring games of keep away. I did do an indoor game where the result was 22 - 0. Don't know if the losing team felt any better afterward, but at least everyone was still trying to score till the end. Mark.
Chill, dude. <snipped for relevance> There was an adult amateur team out of ATL called Datagraphic- I assume they were sponsored by the company of the same name. Used to watch 'em play all the time in Piedmont Park in the late 80s and early 90s. They were once pretty good on a national am level, IIRC. Anyway, how do they fit into your rant? You play/played for them?
First off, your contention that MLB, NBA, MLS, or NFL teams don't stop scoring is incorrect. "Running up the score" is usually frowned upon in the US. "In United States and Canada, it is considered poor sportsmanship to "run up the score" in most circumstances" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_up_the_score I think players have done their job once they've blown the other team out, even if the game isn't over. The chance of injury in the pros, or fighting (in adult leagues) usually doesn't make it worth it anyway. If you're up 9-0 the team should probably be testing some experimental formation or moving players aound to make best use of the time. But I totally make exceptions to this rule about HUMILIATION, which some teams truly deserve. If the other team is talkin' stuff and can't back it up... fire away. My favorite goal of all time was at the end of a blowout against a team I hated and my backheel goal just rubbed it in more.
Personally, I think it's far more insulting to the losing team for the winning team to stop trying to score when the score gets lop-sided. I've been on the receiving side of such a situation, and I would have been truly pissed had the other side given up. Definitely a very "American" concept.
You truly have not lived until you have been on the reciving end of a blowout. Which means I am a zombie! Brians!
I would rather get beat 100-0 than 6-0 and be toyed with the entire game. I would be willing to consider a mercy rule in non-professional leagues.
Touche. Great post btw. Thanks. Yes! Keep scoring! More importantly, learn how to score goals that cannot be saved! (See Men's US National Team.)
The Datagraphic Steamers were also a competitive youth club team out of Georgia. I did not play for them, but I did play against them. Why are they relevant? They were one of the best teams I ever saw at finishing. I've played coast to coast and beyond, and they're one of the few teams I've seen that did it right. Which is exactly my point. In a country that fails to finish at the highest levels, it makes ZERO sense to limit finishing at any level in the US. Does this make sense to you? Problem: The US can't shoot. Solution: Hey let's limit scoring. Let's limit teams for being good. Backwards in every way possible.
Oh the old sportsmanship card! People that love to play that card usually never played, and those that did, did not do so at a particularly competitive level. Sportsmanship Points!?! Laughable. Truly. So running up the score is frowned upon? Does that mean it doesn't happen? Does that mean teams don't do it? Does that mean there's a rule in place for those leagues which penalizes the winners for scoring too much? No, I don't think so. Running up the score, believe it or not, is very American. (See any competitive sport in the US.) No one stops. I promise. They may let up, but they don't stop. Once their job is done? No, that's not how this sport works. The rule in this sport is "Play Until You Hear the Whistle". As long as the game is afoot, the goal is to score. To stop scoring is against everything this sport represents. A footballer's job isn't done until the ref blows that whistle at the end. Until then, every team is on their own to defend their goal. I don't even think refs should be allowed to call the game early, which we all know they do in most blowouts. I want the full game, but that's me. I want as many shots as possible, but that's me. I want a country that learns to shoot well from a very early age, but that's me. I agree with changing player's positions and team formations, but I do that at around 5-0. If my backs want to score after that, I say GO FOR IT! If my team can still set up nice goals, I ENCOURAGE IT. But that's me.
It is FAR MORE INSULTING. Most Americans fail to grasp this concept. If you can't get the ball, you are being embarrassed. Scoreline has very little to do with it.
Not exactly, but close. You truly have not played anyone good until you have been on the receiving end of a blowout. After that, you know exactly where you stand. No doubt.
Yep. Pretty simple idea really. Can't believe so many people don't get it. Makes me think the people making these "rules" never played. But that's "crazy talk" right?
Case In Point My boys just lost a semifinal 2-1 to the eventual champion. They were crushed. Alternatively, a team that we crushed 10-0 stopped playing after the first half, walked around the field in the 2nd half, and couldn't have cared less. You tell me who's feelings are more hurt. The Mercy Rule serves no purpose, other than to confuse the children. No one condones spankings anymore?
Think of the Germany-Austria game in the 1982 WC, I think, where both teams, already into the next round, played "pass around-keep away" for the entire second half, and there was a 1-1 tie (and the spectators were mad enough to spit nails). Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, and if somebody already mentioned it, sorry.
I think you're thinking of Datagraphic Magic, if I'm not mistaken. The Steamers, I think, were up in Gwinnett. That is, unless Datagraphic had two teams. If I'm wrong, then, er, um, I guess I'm just wrong. Is that so wrong????