Donovan, Howard: Everton vs. Sporting Lisbon [R] Europa League 2/25 3:05 EST

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by ctoa23, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I've never really gotten the impression that English teams take the UEFA Cup all that seriously though. The extreme case of that is Aston Villa fielding a reserves side throughout their run last season (even in a must win knockout stage match), but in general I tend to notice English teams lacking anywhere near the same intensity they bring to the Premier League.

    The UEFA Cup doesn't have the prestige of the Champions League obviously, and if a top 6 or 7 finish is more lucrative than a deep Europa League run (I'm assuming it is, but I may be wrong), then I could understand clubs prioritizing league play much more highly.
     
  2. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    In general, perhaps. But in this specific case, Everton clearly did everything to try to win. Fielded a full team. And they don't really have anything to play for in the league so they wanted this game for sure.
     
  3. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I was actually just questioning the idea that you could use the overall record of English clubs in the UEFA Cup/Europa League to accurately measure the quality of the Premier League outside of the big 4.
     
  4. 60611

    60611 Member

    Jan 23, 2007
    Chicago

    Never thought it was going to be single-sided favoring Everton, as they could potentially get tonked playing at Stoke, West Ham, etc, especially if those teams played their home games in Continental Europe.

    Just trying to point out that their performance/tactics today (getting dominated by a not particularly good team, even before said team started scoring) was very disappointing.

    Oh well, most all will be forgotten with a good performance this weekend at WHL.
     
  5. Tony Dellbird

    Tony Dellbird English and Proud

    Mar 26, 2004
    Jolly Ol' England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Everton were dogshit. LD was dogshit. Howard was great, as was Arteta. All I really want to say on this matter.
     
  6. ctoa23

    ctoa23 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    E&G Forum
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What'd Arteta do that was so special? All 10 outfield players sucked. It's simple.
     
  7. Tony Dellbird

    Tony Dellbird English and Proud

    Mar 26, 2004
    Jolly Ol' England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Not a great deal, but he was the best out of a bad bunch. The run he had in the second half could have easily led to a goal.
     
  8. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Donovans's cross back into the box (from the Baines long ball) could have easily led to a goal as well.

    Sorry, Arteta's game does not qualify as "great."

    Now, Tim Howard, yeah, he was pretty great. If not for him, the game would have been over long before it was.
     
  9. ctoa23

    ctoa23 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    E&G Forum
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel as though 99% of the blame can be put on the back four. With Heitinga and Distin it would of been a completely different scoreline.
     
  10. Tony Dellbird

    Tony Dellbird English and Proud

    Mar 26, 2004
    Jolly Ol' England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Arteta's run was great. A ball fizzed into the box is percentages. Arteta had a lot more impact than Donovan. If the commentator hasn't said so, I wouldn't have known Landon was on the pitch.
     
  11. tsaldana3

    tsaldana3 Member

    Apr 26, 2008
    TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Same can be said about Bily, and Rodwell. O wait... Rodwell DID score, but for the wrong side.

    :(
     
  12. Tony Dellbird

    Tony Dellbird English and Proud

    Mar 26, 2004
    Jolly Ol' England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Rodwell came on as sub and was unlucky to have that deflected in. Bilya was dogshit.
     
  13. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, hey, I'm not saying LD had any impact at all.

    But IMO, to single out Arteta and say he was great along with Tim Howard is stretching Arteta's contribution. It's no biggie. I just disagree on that. :)
     
  14. shotcallin04

    shotcallin04 Member

    Feb 12, 2008
    I think it's pretty established that Donovan isn't going to look like Cristiano Ronaldo or Wayne Rooney and single-handedly take over games and put the team on his back. It wasn't one of his best efforts, but it's not like he went in the tank either. I thought he was solid positionally on defense as usual, and I think they missed him when he came off (defensively).

    Look at the players that were missing today in the center: Fellaini, Heitinga, and Distin. It's not a surprise that without those guys there was a drop-off in performance in the center of the park and on defense. Those guys are all tenacious ball winners who give Pienaar, Saha, Arteta, Osman, Bily, and Donovan more freedom to attack. It was a tough road game in Europe, and things broke down in the second half. It happens. No need to play the blame game, because everyone in the locker room will be looking at themselves in the mirror after a game like that.
     
  15. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except coming out and actually playing soccer. Sometimes the European home/road mentality is annoying. Since LD has gotten there they have been awful in the 3 road losses, and played great at home.

    If they were better on the counter it might be diffferent, but seem incapable of slotting through balls, which is killing LD. As good as Arteta is on the ball, he has not put one guy through that I can remember......

    But LD was also disappointing, sometimes you have to look for the ball, it won't find you on its own.
     
  16. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    one more observation why he looked invisible and everton looked lethergic, he was playing forward.

    *ducks*
     
  17. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arteta had negative impact. Everton couldn't get a hold of the ball and couldn't get it to attacking players in good positions. Most of that is on Arteta, who was poor. Donovan was an attacking player who didn't have any impact, so he was poor as well.
     
  18. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man...yet another example of what I hate most about this game. This mentality that going on the road and playing for the draw will get you through with a one or two goal lead is so stupid. How many ********ing examples of this strategy not working do these managers need? Play to win or don't bother showing up at all. Everton played for the draw and that is pathetic. They had the players. Just simply playing Yakubu along with Saha would have changed things. But no... Moyes wanted to rely on the counter attack with only one up top. Sporting played to win and showed it. Everton essentially played to lose. If I were an Everton fan I'd be pretty pissed off right now. Reminds me of the Confederations Cup Final.
     
  19. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Donovan wasn't moving. He ran up and down his channel and that was it.
     
  20. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    simply put, this one falls on MOyes..For all the praise he's gotten for wins over ManU and Chelsea.... the way he approached the game yesterday resulted in one putrid tactic to employ, made Bob look like Guardiola in comparison....
     
  21. Arteta's Girl

    Arteta's Girl Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Liverpool, UK
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Well there you go people. There is the total extreme to your Everton from Saturday. I said to some people before that I thought we would throw it away, I just know it. It's the Everton way. It might as well be written in the club's DNA. We bottled it. I've warned people, Everton is not any easy ride, they build you up, and up and then just when you start believing....they come and kick you right back down to the bottom again. Starkly brings back memories of beating Man City and then the huge build up to the FA Cup match, only to see us bottle it once more and walk away having been knocked out.

    So last night (and today, to be honest), I was embarrassed. Ashamed to support a team with no passion, no desire, no belief and no backbone. It was a feeble attempt at trying to get a result. We went to defend our lead, make no mistake, but I think we all realised that was the incorrect decision. We needed to go out, and play for the win. Sporting are a good team, with dangerous players (ok they haven't had the best season but the talent is there for all to see - Moutinho, Liedson, Djalo, Ismailov, Fernandez, etc) but we SHOULD have had enough to go there and win.

    I cannot fault a team who goes out, plays to there maximum and works incredibly hard, but loses. In this cases, they didn't and got fully what they deserved.

    I feel the whole tie swung on that late away goal from the first leg. We were down about it and they were high and full of belief. We didn't play well but somehow find ourselves in the lead but didn't have the belief to carry on and win the game comfortably.

    I believe we REALLY missed Heitinga and Distin at the back, they have formed a pretty reasonable partnership at the back and with Yobo, and Senderos making only his 2nd start (I don't rate him anyway) I never really felt comfortable. Mistake is Yobo's middle name, and Hoof might as well be his last. I think the midfield, and Baines to an extent, kinda didn't have faith in the 2 CBs and felt they couldn't move from their position through fear of exposing them. I honestly felt they had no confidence in the back 2 and it ran through the rest of the team.

    I can barely recall us keeping a sustained period of possession of the ball, everyone, every single one of those players were guilty of giving the ball away cheaply. I lost count at the amount of times the midfielders passed the ball straight to them. Donovan was hardly on it, Pienaar the same and when they did they invariably gave it away, Osman was oddly never in the right place, Bilyaletdinov was AWFUL, did he even pass to a blue shirt all night? Arteta was the only one who looked slightly better than the rest (probably the best outfield player for us). Their midfield won the battle and ultimately won them the game. Can't help but feel what might have been if Cahill and/or Fellaini were available. I think we may have got the result we wanted.

    Saha had one of his "I really wish I was anywhere but here right now" nights where he really couldn't be arsed to do anything. That meant when the defenders played long out of defence (a lot because they are crap!!) the ball just came straight back at them and we forced ourselves under pressure.

    There were 2 positives from the game that I could actually pull out after thinking about it, in my opinion:

    1. Phil Jagielka came back! He is a quality player, and was our best last season by a country mile (even with Arteta putting in his best ever year for us!). He saved us on countless occasions so hopefully he can come back. Ok, we conceded 3 goals after he came on but the blame can't be solely on him, and to see him back on the pitch after so long was beautiful.

    2. Tim Howard, pulled off some top saves, and kept us in with a chance til late on. Without him the tie would of been beyond doubt a long time before it was. He was one of maybe 2 players who could come out of that with their heads held high.

    All we as Everton fans ask for is 100%, we love our club through the good and the bad, we've been lower than this before, a lot lower. We work to get money to go to the match, that is life here. People paid a lot of money to go out to that game, took time off work, away from their families all to watch a football match. We had over 3000 fans there last night and all we wanted was some effort, we want them to play as we would if we had the shirt on, give their everything. They never. They should be embarrassed as we were walking back out into the Lisbon streets and sat in the stands with our heads in our hands.

    A good team shows their strength from adversity and bounces back. We need to kick on in the league now, and push to finish high as we can. It's a matter of pride. They have to show some passion and make up for that performance. I'll be there again. I'll be giving them my full support again. Alls I want back is some pride, passion and fight. I think we, as supporters, have earned it.

    On Moyes, ultimately blame lies with him, he got it wrong, horribly, horribly wrong. Hoping he will learn from it, but I doubt it.



    *Sorry it's not very relevant to LD/Howard specifically but I needed to put this down to clear my mind a little :eek:
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't you get it? If Villa didn't tank those games, then they would have been so knackered in league play that they wouldn't have qualified for the Europa League!
     
  23. Arteta's Girl

    Arteta's Girl Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Liverpool, UK
    Club:
    Everton FC
    So they played a reserve team to get knocked out of a competition so that they could qualify for same competition next year? :confused:

    Nope, O'Neill did it to go all out for 4th place, and it backfired quite spectacularly.
     
  24. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    That's right, they had the opportunity to break into the top four and they took it, putting other competitions aside...they just did not make it in the end.
     
  25. Principal Firebush

    Principal Firebush Smorgy Borgy Borgy

    Jun 20, 2006
    Ohio
    Playing the reserves against CSKA Moscow didn't have an impact on their dropoff in the league. Their season crashed starting in January when they 1) lost Laursen for the season and had no one to replace him and 2) bought Heskey and switched to a 4-4-2 to accomodate him, when they had so much success with a 4-5-1.
     

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