Donovan Cut - is this the end of Landon?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by keller4president, May 22, 2014.

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  1. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    You are right about GO USA, can't see how that really upset you so much. As to arguing, I simplu voiced my opnion and pinted oput inconsistencies in your posts, I had no interest in beating the dead horse repeatedly. I missed jond calling you names unless you say commenting on your obviously distraught emotional state was somehow calling you a name.

    I am not the one who take shte position of agree with me or your irrational and a poor judge of talent.

    I will add I did not mean to give the worng impression about JK amassing hardware as a coach, it was more to point out the guy knows what it takes , and he has seen a lot more "good" up close and personal and I think he mght have just a wee bit more info than some random guy on the interwebz about what we need in Brazil.
     
  2. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If there are issues with Landon they're obviously not the typical "locker room cancer" or hothead problems. My guess is that IF this is the real issue that Klinsmann has with him it has more to do with his openly introspective nature that sometimes comes off as self-doubt or lack of the highest level of drive. JK seems to want guys who are all-in full stop, whereas Landon is not always that guy, and if one of your talisman players shows signs of being wishy washy that could have a negative effect on the team.

    But again, all speculation based on little hints and the fact that it's, on the face of it, a bewildering decision. Or to put it another way, I'm really talking out my ass now.
     
  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Like I said, does anybody know "what it takes" any more than Maradona? Surely he knows more than your typical internet dweeb about winning a World Cup or a FIFA Player of the Year award, right? Do you want to hire him?

    I mean, look at Ruud Gullit and look at Bruce Arena..... :eek:
     
  4. taylor

    taylor Member+

    Jun 9, 2000
    Fav team: FC CARL ZEISS JENA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    So I am all for the fire JK issue. However, I watched Ghana and Portugal play (without CR7) and we def can beat them if we control CR7, even without my holy mother LD10. My problem is sort of bitter sweet. I am really happy we now have a chance, assuming the two teams play the way they did today, but at the same time I dont want the mofo JK to get the credit for getting out of the "group of death from 2010". We have def aged less than the other two teams. Also our blood fued brothers the Mexis are looking good all of a sudden, whodda thunk it, lol....
     
  5. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    If we win I really do not give a good flying #@(k at a rolling donut who gets credit for it. It's a victory for the US National Team and US Soccer. Period. Let Klinsmann have all the credit he wants as far as I'm concerned.
     
  6. taylor

    taylor Member+

    Jun 9, 2000
    Fav team: FC CARL ZEISS JENA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #4106 taylor, May 31, 2014
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
    No, I agree. Its just... well I got a look behind the magic curtain of the group of death. Before I was like fire JK just on principle for leaving LD out and said if he gets us out of the group of death than he can stay. My point if (and it is a big IF) the two teams play like they did today we should be ok without LD. So it is more of a managing expectactions problem.

    That does not mean we would not be better without him. I mean now we get to the question of Penalty kicks in extra time. Do we want davis or LD. The contigencies are endless. Go USA but still fire JK, lol...
     
  7. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    If you think that Ghana or Portugal will look in two weeks like they looked today, then I can give you a rock-solid guarantee that you'll be frustrated and disappointed.
     
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  8. KickballWizard

    Jun 11, 2013
    You mean when he said that Donovan is still one of the best players, or were there other comments that I didn't hear?
     
  9. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @y-lee-coyote

    Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson won championships at all levels, how did they do as coaches? JK's success at a player doesn't impress me one bit when it comes to his prospects as a coach.
     
  10. KickballWizard

    Jun 11, 2013

    WHere did this Donovan is fat campaign start? Klinsmann didn't actually say something like that...did he?
     
  11. taylor

    taylor Member+

    Jun 9, 2000
    Fav team: FC CARL ZEISS JENA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    lol, too late. Already seperated with alimony payments.
     
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  12. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    He looked like he was carrying a few extra pounds a couple of times on video and in a few photos a month back.

    On the other hand, word is he finished in the top third in the beep test, which counters the "out of shape" judgments that many have blithely passed on. In the barrage of info that came out, a couple of times I saw mention of his heat maps during practices, which looked good according to trainers.

    It wasn't his fitness.
     
  13. taylor

    taylor Member+

    Jun 9, 2000
    Fav team: FC CARL ZEISS JENA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    no it started cause of some picture taken. As I said, I am USMNT 100%. Only those who watched us beat Portugal live can understand the pleasure and also under stand of the pain of watching Sanneh miss that freakin header v. Germany live.

    I just now have recalibrated my expectations and now think JK should be fired if he doesnt get us to the quarters. That simple, really.
     
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  14. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I do wish you guys would not use guys with character issues since Jk has no known character issues, but I get your point.
    Again I was not addressing his tactical acumen. I was saying I think he is a better judge of talent than some message board champion of the worldwide web. I get tou guys don't like the argument and that many coaches do not workout at the top level. If Jk does not work out it won't be because he can't judge talent.

    Just because we cannot make sense of somebodys reasoning behind a particular decision, does not mean it is sirrational. Just because a coach makes a decision against the conventional wisdom does not mean he has some mythical ax to grind over past grievances. We hired a used car salesman or a genius, but he isn't going anywhere until after the WC if then. It is for certain we will not know if it is a mistake or if he got away with a mistake until then.

    I get why he made the call, I get why you guys are mad. I don't quite get the hysteria, or the absolutism of some of those who think it was a mistake and demand a list of exact reasons other than the reasons we were given. The reason we were givewn is coaches perogative, of he is successful then that is good enough.

    I see it as Landon gambled on JK couldn't win without him and went AWOL (note self diagnosed injuries do not count as legitmate medical leave) and that later he could come riding in on his white horse and save the day after JK came begging or got fired. Well guess what boys and girls we kicked ass without him and with JK.

    JK has not seen anything that made him believe he had to have LD. That is on LD.
     
  15. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    If Klinsmann doesn't pick his best team then that's 100% on him. Every coach has some blind spots, some of them far more glaring than others, and Donovan's clearly one of Jürgen's.

    That's a glaring one. That's more glaring than say Bradley's for Bornstein.
     
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  16. Plxix

    Plxix BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 13, 2006
    I don't get this sentiment. LD was pro since 16 and so he took a break. Whatever reason is it, so what? He came back and was Gold Cup MVP, Top Scorer and winner. He then went on to play fine the rest of qualifications. How exactly did this "break" turn into all these mantras?
     
  17. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    @superdave, just read your post #4021...you're brilliant. Can you please work for USSF? Pretty please? :)
     
  18. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--

    Yeah I feel terrible for the guy he has been a pro athlete all his life and needed a break. boo fricking mentally weak hoo. Ftr he was let back in the side but clearly did not do enough to stay there.


    That is the problem that you guys keep letting LD off the hook on. He was not a "blind spot" he was mostly non-existent when it mattered, because of His choices. He should have showed up for the Mexico game on song instead of overweight out of shape and unable to contribute much. He apid for having a different timetable than JK about when he needed to round into top shape. It is not a club side we can make other choices if he wants to be like that.
     
  19. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    What possible evidence do you have that Landon thought the team couldn't or wouldn't win in CONCACAF without him? And, what does it prove that the team did given the higer levels that our upcoming opponents operate on?

    This shouldn't be about "having to have" LD or any other specific player, but about taking the 23 with that give us the best odds. Yes, he'll be judged by what ends up happening on the field, that even in success that wouldn't justify taking unwarranted and inexplicable risks.

    As for Jurgen's judge of talent, it's not a question of not liking the argument, but of not believing that had anything to do with the decision. If it was something that could be explained so rationally, surely he would have done. No need to insult those of us who believe that it doesn't add up, particularly when you're words are that we may have hired a "used car salesman"....
     
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  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Private Entrance repped this.
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, that's the one.
    Do a search for a thread called "Clint!!!" I pegged Dempsey as a bigtime player about a month into his rookie season. :D
     
  22. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    It's not "letting Donovan off the hook" at all to say, categorically, that Donovan is more valuable to this team than Davis, than Wondo, and in overwhelming likelihood (although there is a definite unknown factor) than Green. In fact, you could definitely argue that he is more valuable than anyone but Bradley, Dempsey, or the keepers.

    Clearly, Klinsmann didn't have an issue with Chandler and his choices or his timetable when it counted. I don't argue that that isn't wise. Ditto in the Donovan situation.

    Really the single best argument you have by far in keeping Donovan on the fringe is the argument that we need to play the diamond, and I am hardly the only one who thinks that the diamond is a shaky idea at best.
     
  23. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--

    Why Is there a greater burden on me to provide evidence than with those whom you agree? I mean I looked at the guys actions and it is obvious to me he did not give a sheet about the team when he took a walkabout with his self diagnosed himself. His later actions indicate he thought he could get away with it and we can see now he guessed wrong.

    Just as it is obvious he thought he could show up for mexico out of shape which was specifically against instructions. It really reequires no stretch of logic to think he either did not care to make the team or did not care what the coach said and thought he was good enough he could compete for a starting spot anyway.

    The "used car salesman"was a nod to your sides position on JK being a poor coach and "we will see" soon enough whether JK knows what he is doing or not. Your last comment is part of the probelm on the one hand you take umbrage and say you were insulted and then immediately imply any other opinion that does not jibe with yours is irrational.

    Bqarring a mircale he is not going to be on the team. The real difference is you blame JK and I blame LD.
     
  24. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    If I recall, Jurgen said he needed a break and wanted to spend time with his family after the 2006 WC. Irony? Hypocrisy?

    Non-existent when it mattered? I know JK chose not to play LD for most of qualifying, but keep the facts straight, as well as some perspective on how badly things would have to go not together through the Hex. Not sure what problem you have with Landon, but seems like you also have a personal issue with him that is unrelated to his play. Say whatever you want, exaggerated as it is, about LD of 2013 or earlier this year, but fact is that LD was and is ready to play, and would make this team better. I understand that you'd rather not address that issue and prefer to troll on the rest, but the focus ought to be on that. As you said above, Jurgen is the coach so the decision is his to make (and allows you gloat for the time being), but it's head-scratching to say the least to let these other types of issues get in the way of picking one of the US's best players for the team, and something that he should have to answer for when all is said and done. Conversely, if he doesn't have to answer because Sunil gave him too sweet a deal, Sunil and everyone else responsible should have to answer for that.
     
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  25. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Nope the best argument I have is he has been a fringe player on this squad in the last year and half or so. Jk is not willing to change his plan so LD "fits." his days of being our best player have been long gone and while he might have been able to contribute, he screwed it up.
     

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