DOGSO Advantage

Discussion in 'Referee' started by davidjd, May 18, 2019.

  1. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And coaches wonder why we make fun of them.
     
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  2. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the guidance that AYSO used to give on when to call advantage.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a referee, the only way I'm going to give a "non-goal advantage" is if the offense has a situation better than a penalty kick. While this is something of a "I'll know it when I see it", that would mean something like the attacker inside of 12 yards, in between the goal posts, with either an empty net or only a non-goalkeeper defender to beat. I also better be REALLY sure that the opportunity is better than a shot from 12 yards with only the keeper to beat.

    Once I give that "non-goal advantage", I'm not going to pull the play back for a PK because then the advantage has been squandered. If a player has an empty net from six yards out and shanks the shot, I'm not giving that second chance.
     
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  4. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It doesn't say not to use advantage in the PA, it correctly says that it is rarely used. The AYSO lesson plan for the Intermediate class describes it this way:

    Beware of giving advantage in the penalty area unless a goal is imminent, since it is usually more advantageous to the attacking team to have a penalty kick.​

    Keep in mind that the AYSO Intermediate referee class is an introduction to Advantage (which is not taught at all in the Basic/Regional class) and the class is primarily aimed at the 12U/14U levels of play. So the discussion of advantage is on a pretty basic level. The Advanced class is intended to delve deeper into advantage--but the Advanced class is more driven by individual instructors, so there is less formal material distributed to instructors, and the lesson plan pretty much just says to emphasize discussion of advantage in discussing fouls and misconduct, as it is more important in higher level games.

    I think if you talk to experienced AYSO instructors (and I consider myself one of them), you are going to find that they are going to adhere to the same concepts you're hearing from experienced referees here:
    • Be cautious about using advantage in the PA
    • Only if a goal is almost certain to be scored immediately
    • No need to signal advantage, as the goal scored
    And I think you will find a split between:
    • The only advantage is an actual goal. Period.
    and
    • Well, a goal is almost always the only advantage in the PA, but if the kid has a completely open goal, no pressure, slowly moving ball, so that it is obviously better than a PK, well that's an advantage wasted and we aren't going back for a PK.
    I don't think you will find anything current from AYSO on this last distinction. As I noted before, USSF formally took the actual goal only position, but none of the places they took that position are current. The latter position is more logically consistent--but it is critical that the opportunity remaining after the foul is clearly better than a PK. This is especially true in younger games where the players have difficulty understanding advantage at all.
     
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  5. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    That's really bad advice.

    Lots of good reasons to call advantage in the defensive half.
    Namely, a keeper would rather have the ball in his hands rather than a free kick from 10 yrds deep in the PA.
     
  6. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    And even if you're not calling/giving/thinking advantage per se, remember that a slow whistle is often your friend in the PA. Few moments are worse for the referee than having to disallow an otherwise good goal because the whistle was blown before it went in.
     
  7. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Nonsense. It is very standard advice.
    There are not "lots" of reasons to call advantage in the back third (which is what the advice actual says is rare). There are--rarely--good reasons to use advantage. That's why it says "rarely" and not "never." GK possession is (sometimes) an example, and is one that many instructors use with this slide (along with a discussion about when you need to call the foul and when you can use advantage with the GK). The AYSO slide is advice for the referee new to using advantage. The message is that you have to be very careful in the back third, and thoughtful in the middle third to be sure advantage is real (i.e. better than the FK), and not just "well, they still have the ball."
     
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    If you allow the goal, you just applied advantage. But this is why the guidance has oft been not to signal, just see if there is an immediate goal (as you say, slow whistle) and award the PK if there is not an immediate goal.

    (This is one of the issues that I think many of us find gets more complicated on paper or on BS than it is in the real world of games we do.)
     
  9. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    I found this in The Archives:

     
  10. Chaik

    Chaik Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I agree and pretty rarely call advantage in the defensive third. However I did once get a complaint from a low-level girls' varsity coach after I called a foul deep in his defensive area and the free kick went right to an opponent's feet and then into the goal. He felt that his girls would be much better off kicking a moving ball if they had space to do so after the foul.

    I didn't change anything about what I do, but it was an interesting thought.
     
  11. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    And this:

     
  12. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    #37 Bubba Atlanta, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    What I seem to have misplaced are the memos saying (a) don't signal for advantage in the PA even if you are giving it, and (b) the only realized advantage in the PA is a scored goal. I must have put them in a good place.

    For lots of vociferous discussion of the latter point, just do a forum search on "two bites of the apple." :rolleyes:

    EDIT: But I did find this in the 2013-14 ATR:

     
  13. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The guidance is to rarely call advantage in the defensive third. It is NOT never call advantage in the defensive third.
     

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