Review: Do you think the AFC no longer has the "Big Five"?

"Big" four or five in a weak confederation. Do you really care?

 

Can't change what confederation you are in. And you always want to be the best in your "league".

Have you seen how passionate the Polish fans for their domestic teams? Does it matter to them that they aren't a top league in Europe?

I'd rather be a strong nation in a "weak" confederation than a weak nation in a "strong" confederation.

 

only narrow-eyed Japs and Koreans can be considered top Asian teams nowadays

 

no need for the racism dude + you bumped two 9 month old threads.

 

)) i've been searching for this kinda forum for a while

 

Considering Australia recently won the Asian Cup, and Iran are the top ranked nation in Asia (although FIFA rankings aren't the best system) I'd say there are still at least 4 "top" teams in Asia.

 

I consider based on these participations:
1. World cup,
2. Olympics,
3. Asian Cup,

We have only 4 big teams now in Asia, followed with strong teams which can stand between those 4 top teams in near future if they qualify high based on the tournaments above:

1. Japan. Continuos WC presence, Top Asian cup championships holder;
2. S.Korea. Most WC presence, Olympics bronce medalist, Two time Asian cup champ and actual 2nd. place;
3. Australia. Continuos WC presence, Actual Asian cup champion;
4. Iran. Continuos WC presence

Possible top team in near future specially if they qualify in this WC2018:

Arabia Saudi, Iraq, UAE, Qatar, China, Uzbekistan, Thailand, Vietnam.

 

Ignore the Olympics, a kiddie tournament.

Would your ranking be any different without the Olympics?

 

Whatever you say, after WC and AC, Olympic is the most important soccer tournament. It's not a kiddie playground as you think. Maybe more important than WC Sub21 because any participating team can test young talents from Sub21 and up and mix with top players of their national teams. Other big reason is that Asian team can compete with other SA, NA, European, Afrian national teams. Specially for Asian National Teams to keep improving... How can this tournament be a kiddie???
Even considering only WCs and ACs results, my actual top three don't change, even the actual number 4: Iran. Nobody keeps qualifying to the WCs like them. The reason I put Iran as #4 now is because they are not improving their results in the last ACs compared to the top3. Iran lately lost performance in ACs but Arabia Saudi lost in both WCs and ACs tours. So Iran is my actual #4. They are the top 4 right now.

 

How about the Confederations Cup?

 

Thailand and Vietnam??? are you laughing at me?)))

 

After Oympics, Confed is the 4th. important tour for Asian NTs. I don't thing European or American NT gives the same importance to this cup. Followed by WC Subs 20, 17... these tours are more important to them and that's one of the many reason South American is more succesfull than Asia for me. Good thing is many Asian countries are a lot more serious investing on it. And we start having results.
I was watching the games of Mexican NT with Brasil/Argentina the last 10 years, and Mexico is winning a lot more games and plays many times better than them, and I can say, also because Mexico finally wins Sub WCs lately.
In this century, they are on of the most succesful NT and already won 2 times, been 2nd place 1 time, Cups dominated before by Brasil/Argentina only in America. Remember that experience helped to win the last Olympics by their Sub23 team against Brasil of Neymar and Hulk. That Brasilian team destroyed SK best Olympic performance 3-0 in semifinals (SK beated Great Britain NT with a great game in QuaterFinals, and won first bronze medal beating Japan later). All these things were not happening before and signs that we are growing.
Confed is more like Clubs supercup in NT version for me. Your team will do everything to win a libertadores, a Champions league... they are not interested in supercups much for now... Asian and African NTs need better results at WC tours to make Confed more exciting. Is it a small WC, but nobody things like it right now.

 

I understand your feeling and I agree little bit but consider this. You may not laugh too much after few more years if they continuously manage their teams like how they are doing lately.
Too be in the top of conference consistently need to fulfill many conditions:
1. World or Conference tour results:
-Wordcup participations and results
-Local Cup. Asiancup top results only.
-Other world tours. Olympics top 8 results only.
-Sub WCs, top 8 results only.
-Confed?? You must beat at least one NA/SA/European NT plus African NT to include in your resume

2. Major leagues players participating in:
At least few NT players playing at bg 7: EPL, La Liga, BL, FR, ITA, POR, NED.
Many of your NT players playing at any other european teams or at american leagues as Brasilian, Argentinian, Chilean, Uruguayan, Colombian, Mexican, MLS,
Rest of your NT players participating at Asian leagues as: Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Iranian, Australian, Qatari, UAE, KSA, Uzbekistan.
3. Have competitive local league:
In Actual Asia, we have competitive 9 leagues at:
Japan, Korea, China, Iran, Australia, Qatar, UAE, KSA, Uzbekistan. Potencial competitive leagues in the near future:
Thailand, Vietnam
Stronger local leagues helps to keep in the top. Or look at kuwait, jordan, oman, etc... they are strong and can beat any of the top 4. But disappears in the next game...

I said:
1. Top 4: these 4 countries hard to beat right now because they are fulfill the most of the requirements.

2. And I said:

Possible top team in near future specially if they qualify in this WC2018:

Arabia Saudi, Iraq, UAE, Qatar, China, Uzbekistan, Thailand, Vietnam.

I saw some iraqui friends laughing before start the group and saying they will destroy them but Now they can be eliminated if they don't beat them. You can't think you will beat them 5-0. They are good and improving.. like Uzbeks we consider them as the final stage member now after their consistent performance last 5-10 years.
They almost made it last WC. Thais will probably pass the group 1st or 2nd. The worst may happen too, Thais and Viets going to next stage. I see both Thais and Viets close to Oman, Jordan, and other midwest team level now. But they got more potencial and this is the tournament that they have to pass at least to the last level. If they are eliminated in this group, will happen as China. China after best performance at 2002, they should have qualified at least in 2 WCs. If happened, we should be talking top 5 in Asia. Didn't happen.

Now the second group after big 4 is like this:
2.A class: KSA, Qatar, UAE, Uzbekistan, North Korea
2.B class: China, Oman, Jordan, etc... (most quality midwest countries with lower local leagues)
2.C class: Thailand, Vietnam
The rest, really need to invest hard on their local leagues and the sub NTs.

 

don't agree with this classification of teams, Uzbekistan isn't 2nd class team in Asia, we beat KSA in the last Asian Cup; we completely destroyed Qatar during WC-2014 qualifiers (Qatar is highly overrated due to this easy group) and UAE wasn't problem for us for last 5 years. Our class is somewhere between 1st and 2nd class teams as we could defeat both Japan and Iran (which you think 1st class teams) at their soil. Only after WC-2018 qualification we can be considered as a 1st class team in Asia.

 

Any of the top 2nd top level can beat anyone at the top with classy performance. I agree. And qualifying at one of two next WC2018 or WC2022 and making next two Asian Cup quaterfinals or more will keep you considered top. Anyone at the 2nd top level who qualify this WC and go to semis next AsianCup will be.
Will be damn hard to qualify anyways to all including the Uzbeks, because only 4 and 1/2 places.. we already have 4 tops and 5 super 2nds...

In my opinion, Uzbekistan is like Chile/Colombia just before the last WC and Copa America 15 months ago. Always considered strong, they only needed title and great performance at WC. Now they both got great last WC performance, 1st. Copa America title (Colombia won first also in this century) helped with 50% quality and 50% local power and referee help in Santiago. After this, Actual Chile, Mexico or Colombia beating Argentina or Brasil is nothing new anymore. They are considered Top of the 2nd level right now with Uruguay in SA. I put Uruguay below BRA/ARG because they are beaten more more and more often to COL/MEX/CHI and PAR.
Exactly what is happening in Asia, except they won their 1st major cups, Uzbeks has quality but not yet a champ. That's why I put Uzbeks between top 2nds.

 

I cant agree with the Olympics being the 3rd most important for national teams, not because I don't regard the Olympic tournament as important, but because its not for national teams. Its for under 23 teams

 

Which one is the 3rd important for you? Confed? I don't think yet... And remember you can take best players from your NT with limit of 3. And has history. Confed is pretty new and small tour. After WC and Asian Cup, Olympics is the most important one followed by actual Confed.

 

In terms of assessing national team performance in AFC then there are really only two tournaments that count and these are World Cup and Asian Cup. After that we only have regional tournaments and friendlies. Regional tournaments and friendlies are too often used as training bexercises and selection trials to place too much weight on them. The Confed Cup doesn't really count in terms of deciding who the best Asian Teams are as only one gets to play each four years and that team has already won the Asian Cup to get there. Remember, I'm only ranking tournaments in terms of determining national team performance. I still can't accept that the Olympics has any relevance in this, but you obviously don't agree with me and thats OK. We are all allowed opinions.

 

Yeah, we both agree in the top 2 tournaments. Thanks for your opinion.

 

This is my all-time AFC ranking.

World Cup appearance - 3 points (+20 bonus points for making it to the knockout stage)
Asian Cup title - 4 points

1. South Korea - 75 points
x9 WC apps (x2 Knockout stage apps) - 27 points + 40 bonus points
x2 AC titles - 8 points

2. Japan - 71 points
x5 WC apps (x2 Knockout stage apps) - 15 points + 40 bonus points
x4 AC titles - 16 points

3. Saudi Arabia - 44 points
x4 WC apps (x1 Knockout stage app) - 12 points + 20 bonus points
x3 AC titles - 12 points

4. Australia - 36 points
x4 WC (x1 Knockout stage app) - 12 points + 20 bonus points
x1 AC title - 4 points

5. North Korea - 26 points
x2 WC apps (x1 Knockout stage app) - 6 points + 20 bonus points

6. Iran - 24 points
x4 WC apps - 12 points
x3 AC titles - 12 points

7. Kuwait/Iraq - 7 points
x1 WC app - 3 points
x1 AC title - 4 points

9. UAE/China/Indonesia - 3 points
x1 WC app - 3 points

 

it's shit not ranking

 

Interesting ranking