Do you leave the pitch

Discussion in 'Referee' started by intechpc, Aug 17, 2007.

  1. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey guys, I've got a question and I'm looking to get thoughts from everyone whether you're a rookie or a seasoned national. In a number of matches that I've AR'ed (including state cup and ODP games), I've seen the CR actually move off the pitch entirely when the ball is near the touch line in his quadrant (i.e. opposite side of the field from the AR). I see it most often at throw-ins or play right along the touch line and I assume it's done in an effort to keep the AR and ball in sight. Now I've watched a lot of pro matches on TV watching the referee's mechanics and I've never seen this occur during a pro match.

    So what's the story? Is this a style thing? Are we encouraged/discouraged from doing this? To me this seems to be taking "get wide" to the extreme and is ultimately unnecessary. In these cases to keep the AR in sight, I usually just trail the play a little bit. I'm curious what your opinions are and how many if any of you leave the pitch during play like this.
     
  2. ref47

    ref47 Member

    Aug 13, 2004
    n. va
    if you are young and very fast of foot, getting wide off the pitch can help keep play between you and the ar, as we are instructed. but, when the players are faster, and they move the ball on counters quickly, you can find yourself way behind play in an instant. not getting so deep or so wide helps you keep up with play. or, for me, at least closer to play than if i was foolish enough to go that wide or that deep.

    i remember seeing brian hall position himself between the players contesting for the ball just outside the pa near the sideline/corner, and the goal. not a recommended position, but it worked for him.
     
  3. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    What?! You've never seen me positioned off the field in my quadrant on any of my TV games? I think I'm offended. Oh, wait -- that's right, I've never been on TV as a referee ;)

    Ok, serious mode now...

    Personally, I occasionally take a position off the field in my quadrant in the very situations you describe. Reason is to keep the ball between me and the AR, i.e. to keep the AR in view while looking at play.

    Some games, I might take up this sort of position more than once. However, I don't take up this sort of position every game. Probably every 2nd or 3rd game I would say.

    Folks should do this only if they are fit enough to keep up and catch up with play, AND if they are proactive enough and smart enough to read where play is going. It is very easy even for a super-fit ref to get caught way out of position for the next sequence of play -- e.g. defender intercepts throw-in and booms the ball 60 yards toward the opposite corner flag.

    Personally, I am still as fast as many of the players on the highest level games that I do, so it is not a concern for me to take up this sort of position which some folks consider 'extreme.'

    It may be ultimately unnecessary, but I think it can still make sense in certain situations.

    I'm pretty sure I have done this a time or two with an assessor watching, and it was not mentioned. Actually, maybe once it was mentioned as being a dangerous i.e. extreme position to take.

    In my experience, I have neither been encouraged nor discouraged from taking such a position.
     
  4. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    I like to do this under two circumstances.

    1. I feel that certain contact between two players is or will be so tense that my immediate presence is required there, and I need to be off the field to see the particular contact I'm concerned about.

    2. Play has moved toward me in a such a way that it is easier for me to leave the pitch and watch play and still avoid becoming a road block to the players. Sometimes running back through the play causes more trouble than stepping off the field for a few seconds.
     
  5. nonya

    nonya Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    wow, if I did that in my matches especially my college matches I would be dead. It amazes me when I run a line and I see a referee go all the way over how incredibly stupid it looks, and I have seen referees follow the ball all the way to the touch line when no one is even near the ball so they can look like they are "close to the play." What you are doing is creating more work for yourself, and I don't care how fit a referee you are, why create a situation where you have to run an additional 10-20 yards? Not only that, but as you run over, most referees keep their back to the rest of the field, which can cause problems because the AR who is on that line is generally looking up the line to see if the ball is going into touch, and the other AR across the field is looking for the second to last defender which means no one is watching most of the players. To me, unless you have a tense situation or you have to give a card there is NO reason to be closer then 10 yards to the touchline.

    As the first poster stated, you will never see a referee do this in an international match unless the field is really narrow. I have heard numerous assessors tell people in matches I have worked that you shouldn't be that far over.
     
  6. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest


    I have seen it on high level games, but rarely. You will only see it when the referee really NEEDS to be there - which isn't very often indeed.
     
  7. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes I have seen it done with assessors present (State Cup most notably) and nothing noted about it being incorrect or discouraged. The first time I saw it I was a little surprised only because I hadn't ever been taught to do that. I always have just trailed play a little so I can watch the players while still seeing my AR in my peripheral vision.

    USSF Ref, those are two great examples of when this makes sense. Actually the latter example is one I believe I may have done once or twice. I hadn't really thought about the first scenario and that really makes good sense to me. I'll have to remember this as something to add to my game management repretoire.
     
  8. Tarheel Ref

    Tarheel Ref New Member

    May 3, 2007
    Chapel Hill, NC
    When I find myself close enough to step on a touch-line I know I'm covering a lot of ground. Sometimes play dictates that a referee get close to the touchline for a number of reasons. When I find myself on the touchline, I'll go ahead and step off the field of play for two reasons, the first to avoid obstructing the play which is heated if I'm that close to it, and the second to prevent obstructing the view of my AR, who I still might have to call on for help on ball in and out of play.

    Another reason I step off the field to turn and face it is that I hate having 90 percent of the field and players at my back...for the same reasons I hate sitting with my back to the door in a restaurant: I just always want to be able to see what's going on and not have to find out after others react.

    Generally I prefer not to have to get that close to the touchlines (or endlines) but sometimes you have to stay really close to the play.
     
  9. Citiref

    Citiref New Member

    Oct 16, 2004
    I was working a game last weekend which was being assessed by a high level National. I went wide twice, once because I was in the way, and the other time for the same reason as #1 on USSF Ref's list. He said there is really no reason to go that wide because you're doubling up on the AR's duties and angle, and there's always the possibility of you getting caught out of position on a counter attack.
     
  10. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    That's fine, and to a point what he says is true. However, there may be times when the game requires that you go there. I can promise you, if you're worried about an elbow being thrown in the deep corner of your diagonal and you stay completely inside, you probably won't be able to see it as the players bodies will screen your view of it. You will have no available assistance from your ARs or 4th, who have no angle either. Plus I bet if you miss that call the very same assessor will tell you that you missed an elblow because you didn't go deep enough.

    I've had national assessors nit pick over small stuff like this (and usually if they do it was a good game), and others who know you do what you need to do to get the job done and see what must be seen.

    In all cases, in my opinion... The best assessors recognize that you can't referee out of a book 100% of the time and you can't always be in the position USSF says as a hard and fast rule. Even USSF says their positions are guidelines and starting points. The referee must be flexible to the demands of the game and if that means going deep into the corner (and stepping off the pitch) to prevent a foul with your presence then you do it. In my mind the same applies to assessment - those guys need to be flexible too. These guys should read the game and recognize when an "outside of the box" solution is required, the ones that don't are doing the game a disservice.

    Now I'm not saying your assessor was wrong, perhaps you chose to do it in a way you thought was good, but really wasn't wise... OR perhaps he's trying to impart a "standard" on you because you're working your way up. Who knows?

    Thats the end of my rant.
     
  11. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    I agree with USSF refs instances, I also have been known to step off the field of play deep in my quadrant in youth matches to avoid being anywhere near where the ball is going to go. They can't throw all the way to the middle, so the throw will be someplace within 10-15 yards and I try to clear that area to avoid the throw, being used as a pick by an attacker and so I can see everyone, including the AR, just make sure not to get "stuck" there as play changes.

    On my upgrade assessment I was told under one condition in the game leaving the field might have enabled me to see a push that I didn't see. I was following play deep into my corner, near the touch line. Defender was shielding the ball, attacker right on his back, me coming up behind them. Yup, pretty much straight lined. Assessor offered that heading wider, even off the field, would have given me an angle to see space and contact between the two players.

    Basically you go where you have to go to see what is happening. It must vary depending on play, players, history in the game etc.
     
  12. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    In my opinion, most of the refs on TV don't cover the field as well as they should or run as much as they should. They take the 'good enough' position and seem to be content with that position and a more 'regal' look instead of busting their butt to where they REALLY should be and getting their hair out of place and some sweat on their brow.
     
  13. Tarheel Ref

    Tarheel Ref New Member

    May 3, 2007
    Chapel Hill, NC
    I've found that changing my viewing angle helps me immensely. Anywhere on the pitch, I'll sometimes change my run from simply closing on the play to moving 90 degrees to it will give a me better view...especially on those shoulder charges where the elbow or arm can come up which wouldn't necessarily be seen simply by being a little closer to the play but with the same in-line view.
     
  14. DWickham

    DWickham Member

    Dec 26, 2003
    San Diego
    I have been fascinated by this issue. There was a time when assessors looked to see if you stepped off all four sides of the field. One of the criteria for assessment still is "recovery from extreme positions." But, that is under the scoring for fitness, not in the positioning section of the assessment form.

    Alas, it is no more. My experience is like others: most assessors and mentors will recommend against taking an extreme position. They don't like the risk of being trapped behind play.

    When is it still worth the risk?

    In the waning seconds of a match, when the losing team puts everyone into the goal mouth on a set play, you may choose to be at or behind the goal line so that you are in position to make the critical call. The same location earlier in the match could put you 60 yards behind play if the free kick bounces off the wall and turns into a quick counter attack. It might not be worth the risk.

    When there are three or more players in your corner (the "coffin" corner), you need to get down there. The tough foul/corner/goal kick decision won't be acceptable to the players if you are 20 yards away outside the corner of the PA.

    Frankly, referees can be fit enough to recover from an extreme position with a short sprint. There are many opportunities to catch up when the attackers move the ball horizontally. But, extreme positioning seems to be relegated by modern teaching to high risk, no reward. You lose points if you don't recover, but you gain no points from taking the extreme position.
     
  15. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    A couple of years back, I was the AR with a much more seasoned CR. He was older than me (and I'm a bit older too), and he didnt look like he was in shape. But my god, he was everywhere! And he went deep into the corners like there was no tomorrow, off the pitch on the endline, unreal. I was amazed. And boom he was back in position before you knew it. At the end of the match as we were waiting for game 2 on our field, I asked him what the positioning was all about and he said the players loved him for being there in the thick of things. He felt that being on top of the call and the play allowed him to better man manage the game. He didnt like seeing guys making calls from 25-30 yards away.

    I treid to follow his lead a couple of times, but I couldn't get the recovery positioning like he could. Therefore I take a less pro-active position.

    R
     
  16. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    I've done this from time to time in the youth matches I do, under a couple of circumstances:

    - I'm trailing play along the touchline, when the attacking player loses control of the ball and kicks it out. A defender grabs it to make a quick throw. If I don't move off the field, I'll be his target.

    - I may be at the side of the field holding the ball waiting for the substitution to complete. This happens in U-littles especially with no AR's, but it could happen in my end of a game with AR's. When we're set to go, I hand the ball to the thrower and move a few steps down the line.

    It would be much harder to recover from the position in an older age game.
     
  17. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    It's funny, I did this once on an assessment (granted, a much lower level then many of you) and was complimented on it. I was also told not to worry too much about getting trapped behind the play, that is what ARs are for! Not sure I totally agree with that view, but as always with assessments, I take their advice, note it, and move on.
     

Share This Page