Diaoyutai Islands or Senkaku Islands?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Ludahai, Oct 23, 2002.

  1. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
    Former ROC President Li Deng Hui has opened his big mouth again, and it has caused quite a stir in Taiwan (and I imagine in the Mainland as well.) Both the PRC and ROC have maintained that the Diaoyutai Islands (called Senkaku by the Japanese) are a part of China's Taiwan Province. Japan claims otherwise.

    Li Deng Hui claimed that these islands were not ceded to the Japanese in 1895 and that they were always associated with Okinawa, which is far to the north. Li said that only Taiwan, Penghu, Matsu and Jinmen were ceded to the Japan. The later two never were ceded to Japan and remain a part of Fujian Province to this day even though they under the administration of the ROC.

    In the 1870s, the Japanese were looking to expand as they had begun their Meiji reforms. The Kingdom of the Ryukyus was an independent kingdom that paid tribute to the Qing Dynasty and had for centuries until the Japanese took their independence away in 1873 and made it the first acquisition in the new Japanese Empire.

    The Senkaku Islands were not a part of the Kingdom of the Ryukyus at this time and only later came under the control of the Japanese.

    Following World War II, the territories that Japan had taken from China (Manchuria, Penchu, and Taiwan) were returned to China. The United States occupied the former Kingdom of the Ryukyus. Later, the US returned the Ryukyus to Japan. In that transition, they included the Diaoyutai Islands with the Ryukyus. This is a violation of China's sovereignty as well as commitments that were made during World War II to not sign a separate peace with Japan (something that had already been violated two decades earlier.)

    The Diaoyutai Islands are a part of Taiwan. Li Denghui has angered many people here in Taiwan with his statements. If he thinks he will regain the Presidency of the ROC with remarks like these, I think he misestimates the Taiwan people in this regard. The ones I talk to are angered by this discussion.
     
  2. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    When do you plan on setting yourself on fire in protest?
     
  3. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
    You would love it if I did that, wouldn't you? Anything constructive to say?
     
  4. Chachi King

    Chachi King New Member

    Mar 14, 2002
    Oooooh the ROC and PRC unite!

    It's like that episode of the Ninja Turtles where the Turtles and Shredder unite against Hitler.
     
  5. kc123

    kc123 Member

    Jun 29, 2002
    What?
    You are still watching the Ninja Turtles.
    No wonder......
     
  6. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
    Explains a lot, doesn't it?
     
  7. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
  8. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let me guess, the real isssue here is over the oil and natural gas that is located in the waters off the islands.
     
  9. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So then, according to the Bush Doctrine, the islands actually belong to us.
     
  10. jamisont

    jamisont New Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    well, Ludahai like you said, Okinawa and Okinawans are not Japanese.
    thats why Japan gave US permittion to use whole Okinawa island as military base cuz it wasnt Japanese soil. (nothing to lose)

    it same goes to Taiwan.
    Taiwan and Taiwanese are not Chinese.
    Thats why Ching dynasty gave up Taiwan to Japan in 1895 easily. cuz it wasnt their land in first place. they had nothing to lose.
     
  11. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
    The later is incorrect. Taiwan was Chinese and had been for over three hundred years.

    China lost a war to France in 1885 (Sino-French War). The French wanted Taiwan, but the Chinese resisted that because they saw Taiwan as an integral part of their territory.

    Instead, China gave up its remaining rights in northern Viet Nam. In 1895, the Chinese navy was at the bottom of the ocean and they had no choice but to sign a peace treaty to an enemy that it had no ability to defend itself against.

    Of course, Cixi can be handed the blame for a lot of that for reallocating the funds designed to build a modern navy for China to construct the marble boat which still fixates tourists at the Summer Palace.
     
  12. casualfan

    casualfan New Member

    Aug 13, 2002
    this guy still thinks taiwanese people are not chinese, get with it man, maybe you SHOULD do some studying and research. do you have any idea how many original aboriginals are in taiwan now? VERY FEW in number. it's all chinese, btw TAIWAN is CHINA's province.
     
  13. casualfan

    casualfan New Member

    Aug 13, 2002
    li teng hui is actually japanese, thus his pro japanese views. there was an article i read on this, he's just a jap trying to split China up. as for the islands it's so obvious that they're chinese territory. there shouldn't even be a topic of debate on this.
     
  14. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    It's not like Japan had much of a choice in 1945. You give the impression that the US military still governs Okinawa

    Okinawa has been part of Japan for over a century and while Okinawans maintain their culture, they are integrated into Japanese society at large in every other aspect of life.
    In fact, their distinction from the average Japanese is no more pronounced than the difference between, say, the Kansai and Tohoku cultures.

    Their lack of political clout comes from the small population and the distance from Tokyo, not cultural or ethnic differences.
     
  15. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Yes, we Japs are out to divide China, wait, it already is divided? And we have nothing better to worry about because our economy isn't in a prolonged recession or anything.

    I'm sorry to ruin your anti-Japanese fantasies but Li Teng Hui's ties to Japan are through the radical right wingers, who are about as mainstream in Japan as Man U supporters in Liverpool.
     
  16. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
    Interesting though that the same people who are clamoring for Tibetans and Taiwanese to have a chance to vote for independence aren't in here demanding the same right for the Okinawans. After, Okinawa has been a part of Japan for a far shorter time than either Taiwan or Tibet have been a part of China.
     
  17. casualfan

    casualfan New Member

    Aug 13, 2002
    I'm not anti-Japanese, I'm just stating the truth that Li is Japanese, whether you like that fact or not. And it's true, all throughout history Japan has always tried to invade their Asian neighbours for obvious reasons, so thus you guys do have nothing better to do. It's safe to say that Japan's economic problems can easily be fixed once there's more land for those overpopulated islands.
     
  18. jamisont

    jamisont New Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    Im not the one who thinks Taiwanese are not Chinese, any educated Taiwanese would say they are Taiwanese not Chinese.
    Check UN.org Chinese less than 20% in Taiwan

    Taiwan is Chinese province? lol just like Tibet is chiness province huh?
    Im sure Kurds who lives in TUrkey is Turkish, in Iraq is Iraqie, and in Iran is Iranian.
     
  19. jamisont

    jamisont New Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    Tibet by manchurians and Mongolians country, not Chinese.
    Taiwan has been part of China for only 8 years officially (from 1887 to 1895)
     
  20. jamisont

    jamisont New Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    and Chinese were not?
    Chinese was always impotence outside their borders.
    Great country like China had been conquored by foreigners how many times??
    The Chinese way of invading neighboring country is getting conquored by them and mixed with them, since Chinese have more numbers, China end up getting their territory.

    Japanese should thank US for prevending Japan from conquoring whole China.
    or right now Chinese would claim Japanese are Chinese.
     
  21. shenhua

    shenhua New Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    Parramatta
    cooki min han dai got raped by japan just as bad.
     
  22. jamisont

    jamisont New Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    was I talking about that?
    Koreans wouldn't say conquors who invaded their country are part of them.
     
  23. casualfan

    casualfan New Member

    Aug 13, 2002
    jamisont, no one has ever conquered China except for the Mongols (who are Chinese by the way), but that fact seems to be lost on you. name me one foreign nation or people that has fully conquered all of China. you can't. and even if Japan was not nuked by the U.S. they would not be able to successfully take over all of China, the landmass is so great, they don't have enough manpower to hold each city. (back then, maybe now is different)
    this was even described as a problem by the Japanese military back during ww2 with regards to occupation of China. you can call China impotent outside their own borders, but apparently a VAST PORTION of that "IMPOTENCE," is the BASIS of your Korean culture. Taiwanese are Chinese, UN.org, nice try but I'm sure the Chinese would know the stats of their country better than some outside western source.
     
  24. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    I wasn't paying attention but I obviouly missed the Okinawa natives protesting for independence from Tokyo. Were there arrests/violence at the demonstration?
     
  25. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Either you have extremely generous definitions of "all throughtout history" and "always" or you're full of it.

    Before the era of imperialism that ended in 1945, Japan tried to invaded Korea on one occasion, in the late 1500s. Can you name any other occasion Japan tried to conquer parts of mainland Asia? I bet I could come up with more occasions when China tried to conquer its neighbors.

    And where could one possibly get the idea that Japan has any desire to conquer Asia? Are we being a little paranoid, or simply anti-Japanese.

    You can go ask 100 people on the streets of Tokyo whether they have any desire to dominate Asia, and other than a few right-wing nutcases, you'll get a resounding "no".
    And if you actually believe Japan's current economic recession can be solved by acquiring more land, then you are indeed as crazy as you sound.
     

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