Democrats In The Wilderness

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Knave, Nov 9, 2016.

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  1. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Not surprising ... I'm not sure how I would have answered that question. Dems do waste a lot of political capital on superficial nonsense, political correctness, frivolous regulations and wasteful spending on dumb programs. By the time they get through all their nonsense, there's little capital left to actually address my priorities. I would characterize Democrats as the party that doesn't help my life or hurt it. Which is still better than the GOP which is actively destroying the things I value.

    Machiavelli said it best ... I'm paraphrasing here, but it went something like "nice guys always finish last".

    This Democratic party to me seems incapable of seizing this moment in history. They're viewed by many as being too soft on Islamic terrorism, too weak on illegal immigrants and too nice to people on welfare ... among other similar cultural issues. Obviously lots of those GOP talking points are complete garbage, but Dems have been incapable of articulating their positions except lecturing the voters that "these are not our values". It's a typical liberal reflex. Instead of addressing the substance, they prefer to censor the uncomfortable idea to make it go away. As if censoring thought and speech has ever fixed anything.

    Having said all that I still think Dems have a good shot in 2018. Dems don't have to be perfect to win stuff. Just a bit above average. If Hillary would have had just a 51% approval rating, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The GOP is not Barcelona. They're like a well funded Arabe Unido. Not much quality, but they'll foul, cheat and time waste their way to a 1-0 win if you let them.
     
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  2. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

    Apr 9, 2009
    Samma Weltmeister!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    ^^So more like Atletico! :ROFLMAO:
     
  3. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Well, the Dems are really freaking out and gnashing their teeth today.

    Maybe if they stood for something substantive they'd be a little less pathetic.
     
  4. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    https://politicalwire.com/2017/06/21/bonus-quote-day-161/

    :ROFLMAO:
     
  5. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Well they say don't put too much stock in special elections. The thing is the GOP vote was split in the runoff and then in the overall all those votes United behind the GOP candidate, you think Dems would unite like that.

    The problem the Dems have to sort out is the party. Liberals and Progressives don't uniformly support somebody because it is their party. Some want to act to pious, others demand concessions on particular issues. Dems can't go as mean and dark as Republicans because members of our own party will say we have to be more mature etc. In short, the people that make up the party rather be right than win, Republicans have realized you have to win then claim you are right.
     
  6. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    I think the whole concept of party attachment is dead. Or at least it's dying a slow death as the baby boomers get phased out. I don't think anyone is changing that. My generation and younger do not affiliate themselves to parties. This is why you see people ditch orthodoxy so easily and support an outsider like Trump, Bernie, Macron etc .... There is no loyalty.

    What makes Republicans such a cohesive force is their hatred of liberals. They don't vote to affirm positive opinions of their own party. They vote to affirm negative opinions of liberals.

    In this sense liberals are second best. We're just not as angry as they are. We're cynical and aloof in the spirit of Jon Stewart. Maybe now that is changing with Trump in charge for better or worse.
     
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  7. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    I'm pretty ********ing angry.
     
  8. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Exactly. As I have always said the right view this as Roll tide v Wingate but for the left it is some sort of philosophical debate between Plato and Socrates or Niestche and Sarte. Wake the ******** up! They want to hurt you, even if they hurt themselves in the process.
     
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  9. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Me too bro ... I'm pretty triggered. Unfortunately I tend to live in safe districts so my vote is usually wasted.
     
  10. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    So this week there is renewed energy in the effort to unseat Pelosi in the Georgia aftermath.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/us/pelosi-georgia-ossoff-democrats.html



    Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes please! These voices need to become louder. I have nothing against Pelosi personally, but she's becoming like a Jurgen Klinsmann cancer. When it's not working, give someone new a chance. We need to send a clear message to the country that the Democratic Party is interested in internal reform. And instead of this tug of war between trying to move to the right to capture the center or move to the left to recapture Berniecrats ... Democrats need to break the paradigm and do both. Look at Trump. He broke the traditional Republican orthodoxy. He said things that were to the right of conventional Republicans and to the left ... and he was rewarded for it. Now we all know he's full of shit, but there is a lesson in there for everyone. One of the ways you can do this is by galvanizing against the common enemy. It shouldn't be that hard for Democrats to demonize Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell with the same formula they've been using on Pelosi. Tie them to corrupt special interests who only care about tax cuts for the rich and screwing over the little guy. They're the real career Washington politicians who are out of touch with ordinary Americans. They're the Trump bootlickers who will flip flop on anything to hold power.
     
  11. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't she just win the vote to become speaker of the house?
     
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  12. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar


    Skip forward to about 4:44 and watch Tim Ryan answer those quick fire questions from the panel. In ten seconds he cuts through the bullshit and he's connecting on that core economic message. Now watch Nancy Pelosi talk for 10 minutes. How anyone in the Democratic caucus could vote for her over him is insane.
     
  13. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Yep. I think these calls to push her out are brand new and they're surfacing in a series of in-party meetings and conference calls following the latest special elections. The party just went 0 for 4 and they're taking a beating in the media.

    Now obviously those 4 districts were going to go red regardless of who's the House speaker. But I think the impatience has only grown since that last vote.

    On some level people have to get it. There are two aspects to it. One of them is age. We need a generational shift away from the old guard who are in their mid 70s and can't be expected to have the language capacity to cut through to the modern voter. And the other aspect is economic. We can't have the party be represented by perhaps the wealthiest district in the country. If you're going to connect with regular people, you need someone from a regular district.
     
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  14. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

    Apr 9, 2009
    Samma Weltmeister!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Pelosi is the mantle of Establishment Dems..a liability IMHO

    She'd be a great coach and mentor for some contemporary Dems
     
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  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While Florida is getting more Latino in the Miami area, it is getting whiter and more republican in many other area

    https://thefloridasqueeze.com/2017/...shifts-favor-the-democrats-correct-maybe-not/
     
  16. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    My anecdotal experience is that a lot of Midwestern white trash has moved to Florida from places like West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana and Michigan ... They move there because it's the only state they know anything about, mostly from postcards and TV shows. Some of these Midwestern towns have collapsed so much that people have to leave even if they don't have anything particularly solid lined up. Combine that with Florida's role in the opiate highway and unorthodox legal climate, and it's naturally going to attract a lot of seediness.

    On the other hand the people moving to Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia are mostly moving for professional reasons. And they're mostly moving from highly educated states like New York, New Jersey and Maryland ... That means a more diverse and cosmopolitan group of people. Which is why those three states are trending blue, unlike Florida.
     
  17. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Your second word betrays the entire rest of your "analysis".
     
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  18. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You're just mad that he (correctly) lumped Ohio in with the trash states in the Midwest.
     
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  19. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    You are correct. I have hurt feelings on behalf of Michigan. You've won this round <shakes fist>.
     
  20. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    We'll be able to test his theory over the next few years by monitoring the Florida Man twitter account.
     
  21. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    I'd be interested to see data on migrations in the last 10-15 years - this seems plausible, but as you say - anecdotal.
     
  22. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    There's a metric shitload of retirees from Ohio in Florida. Probably second to New York. Not sure of younger cohorts, but a number of people in visualization-heavy industries end up moving to Orlando because of the simulation sector and gaming sector.
     
  23. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Yeah - here's something with data as recent as 2011 - and another with more recent total internal migration numbers. Seem to be based off the census, so reliable IMO.
     
  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No income tax and good weather, it attracts republican leaning people.
     
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  25. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    The Pelosi thing risks being a Boehner thing. The Tea Party forced Boehner out and forced Ryan to lead. As can be seen he ducks at leading. So much so he leaned on Pelosi to get the budget extension.

    The GOP has made Nancy the face of evil since Republicans hate women in power, so the fact they have tied a lot of candidates to her is bad but if Dems give them what they want then what. Why would you willingly remove a key player to please the other side.
     
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