By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
  1. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

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    #1 Dan Loney, Aug 30, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017

    Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

    By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
    I was minding my own business, planning how to further trash multinational accounting and consulting firms, when all of a sudden I see this:



    Oh, so now we don't want to talk about financials? I wonder what's changed. Did an accounting firm release a report on promotion and relegation that didn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny, or something?

    Speaking of the slightest scrutiny, let’s go back to the Deloitte fan poll.

    The one that isn't in the report? The one that said "88" more often than an Aryan motorcycle gang? The nice people at Fleischer Communications have given us a little insight.

    I'm being more or less sincere. I certainly wouldn't be responding to me, if we were each other.

    Anyway, after the press release, I e-mailed back and said "How method poll took?" or words to that effect. Fleischer Communications answered with a link to the full report, and we've all had a wonderful time ever since. But I did write and say, "Poll not in report. Poll in press release, but not in report. Where poll? How poll work?" or words to that effect.

    And, by golly, here's the response:

    The survey was conducted by a reputable company on behalf of Deloitte. It was completed by 1,058 respondents, which included:

    • 499 respondents – who were representative of the wider National US Audience


    • 559 additional respondents – who had previously stated they have an interest in soccer or enjoy watching soccer.

    Of the population of 1,058 respondents – all were interested in at least one of MLS, NASL, USL or National Team.

    All respondents were based in the USA.

    Now, if someone can explain to me the difference between those two groups, I'm all ears. If I'm parsing this correctly, Reputable Inc. found 499 people representing a cross-section of America but were also interested in at least one of MLS, NASL, USL or National Team. Then they added 559 people who were also interested in at least one of MLS, NASL, USL or National Team...but were not representative of the wider US audience.

    Whatever. Let’s pretend that the poll came down from Moses.

    So what?

    It doesn't matter how many people, in whatever category, think promotion and relegation is nifty or not. The question is whether it's a good idea. In the immortal lyrics of Justin Bieber, "popular is not the same as good."

    Reputable and Sons LLC notwithstanding, this was supposed to be a business justification for promotion and relegation. If 88% of your customers want you to hurt your business? You're not going to do it.

    Ah! But what if that 88% is passionate and determined? That 88% can unite against the corporate overlords and force real change! Well, sure...if promotion and relegation wasn’t aimed to attract the least motivated and least committed fans.

    How do I know this? I read it in a DeloitteUK report.

    Here’s the evidence DUK presents to prove that promotion and relegation is more popular on TV than Brand X:

    In contrast, evidence from open leagues suggests that the dynamic of promotion and relegation delivers a more appealing broadcast product. For example, analysis of the English Championship in 2015/16 serves to highlight this as the two clubs that achieved automatic promotion (Burnley and Middlesbrough) saw considerable increases in their latter regular season games that decided their promotion:

    Burnley’s deciding match against Queen’s Park Rangers saw their highest average broadcast audience of the season, of 551,000, 74% higher than the season average for the other (13) Burnley matches broadcast in the season (source: EFL, Kantar).

    The match between Middlesbrough and Brighton and Hove Albion, which secured Middlesbrough’s promotion was the second highest average audience (436,000) and the highest peak audience of the season (697,000), with the average being more than 32% higher than the average for the other (15) matches in which Middlesbrough appeared on television (source: EFL, Kantar).

    This is not just the regular season race either, with the English Championship playoffs seeing matches for the participants ranging from between 22% and 163% higher than the regular season averages for those clubs, and between 47% and 216% higher when compared to the season average for all matches in the league.

    The evidence for the increased attractiveness, from a broadcast perspective, is not just limited to England. The second leg of the Serie B play off final in Italy in 2016, between Trapani and Pescara drew an average audience of 467,434 a Serie B record for Sky Italia.

    You know what? Let’s give them this. Just put a big red bow on it and say “Job well done.”

    I might bring up in passing that if promotion by itself was the draw, then the Championship wouldn’t need to have promotion playoffs at all, would they? I’d say something about how it might have been a more useful idea to use ratings for American television audiences. I’d expand on that thought by reminding everyone that thanks to Liga MX, we could even compare ratings for playoff implication games versus games with relegation implications.

    And knowing me, I'd probably be tempted to point out that since a promotion race is supposed to be a race, it would be nice to know whether the other six teams benefited from the excitement as well before the actual playoffs...or whether the Burnley-QPR and Boro-BHA games simply took away viewers from other games.

    And I'd probably expand that thought to include years besides 2015/16, because, I mean, they do this every year. Might be a pattern somewhere? Something that could be measured and analyzed by professionals, even?

    But no. It's Believe Everything We Read Day. Promotion and relegation matches draw bigger audiences than playoff spot matches. DeloitteUK proves it beyond any shadow of a doubt. MLS ratings drop off drastically from summer to autumn. But come springtime, we love us some Middlesbrough. Pretty open and shut. Good work, DeloitteUK!

    ...just a couple of things.

    Those promotion and relegation matches? DeloitteUK somehow managed to forget the “and relegation” part.

    I mean, we’ve read about narrative and such, over and over, and compelling content, and how MLS needs something to give the season a little pepper when the kids go back to school. I hate to be a stickler, but, the thing about MLS is, there’s not really much we can do for them as far as promotion matches are concerned.

    So, glad to hear about Burney and Boro’s groovy ratings, but, I think the more useful comparison would be how many people slowed down to watch the car crashes.

    If any enterprising young accountant would care to check, the teams you are looking at for 2015/16 are Bolton Wanderers, Charlton Athletic, and Milton Keynes. And brother, they stunk it up something wild! Those three were underwater from the jump! They must have been piling up the ratings like crazy!

    Seems like the kind of thing that shouldn’t be taken for granted, though.

    Because if relegation matches didn't draw appreciably better than otherwise...or even vary noticeably more than quality or popularity of opponent, time of day, time of season, and so on...well, it's one thing to use the Johnson & Johnson brand Band-Aid Non-Stick Bandage on the kneecap you just blasted with the shotgun. It's another to put it on the other kneecap.

    But this is the case FOR promotion and relegation. All the bad things that could happen to a relegated team? That would obviously be covered in detail - responsible, dutiful, professional detail, worthy of the very Biggest and Fourest - in Section 6.

    What’s that? You’re worried that Section 6 would only be one-fifth the size of Section 5, and half of that taken up with “Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if” followed by fantasies Gary Gygax wouldn’t believe? Oh, come on - could you imagine if a reputable accounting or consulting firm tried to pull a fast one like that? They’d be laughed out of the business!

    Glad there’s no chance of that happening.

    But like I said, we’re giving this to them. MLS ratings will go up with a few relegation matches. Give those lazy sons of bitches a reason to exert themselves, am I right? What could go wrong? Is there something else that would prevent MLS fall ratings from….wait, what's this?

    “The start of the NFL season may also be a contributing factor in lower audiences for MLS in the autumn.”

    ….oh, THAT.

    You know what? I’m on Deloitte’s side here! SCREW the NFL! SCREW gridiron! I mean it! Why are we trying to get football fans not to watch football? We want soccer fans! It’s a better game, after all, isn’t it?

    Here’s the thing.

    First of all, it isn’t just the NFL. If DeloitteUK’s Sports Business Group ever decides to maybe, I dunno, pick up the phone (or “braces,” as they say in England) and talk to an American, they’d learn that the NFL pretty much is a Sunday thing. They play a few games on Monday, to make some extra money. And they play a few games on Thursday, to make some extra money and make sure the product sucks just that extra little bit more.

    You’d think they play on Saturdays.

    And they do. End of December, January, around then.

    September, October, November...not so much.

    No real reason for that.

    Except for the biggest god-damn time sink in the athletic world, the dawn to dusk embarrassment to amateurism and education that calls itself college football, cursed be those who sail in her. Imagine watching Iowa every week. My family makes me turn it off whenever I do. And they’re right, I admit that.

    But this isn’t about Kirk Ferentz being the biggest white collar criminal in America today. This is about marketing. And what we want to show to fans who are actually reachable.

    We’ve talked about how American sports see themselves. They would never admit there was anything else drawing people to (gridiron) football, except football. You and I know it’s a deeply flawed game. I’m sure DeloitteUK is rightly repelled by the whole thing.

    And we’ve talked about what promotion and relegation markets. Something outside the field of play. Something that, if the NFL felt like it, it could use for itself. However, many fans of soccer nowadays are willing to swear that the most important and essential thing about it has nothing to do with what actually happens on the field.

    Great! Let’s accept that premise, too. Soccer without promotion and relegation is nothing.

    Forget the long-term negatives of what happens to relegated teams. DeloitteUK sure does. Let’s pretend all this is gospel.

    Teams in danger of relegation tend to - and I apologize for the overly technical jargon - suck. They play bad soccer, get bad results, and basically annoy the crap out of anyone unfortunate enough to follow them.

    When you market relegation, you market teams that are in danger of being relegated. This year, that would mean - oh, let’s see, who’s a disgrace to the sport this year - my beloved Galaxy.

    I would never in good conscience tell someone to watch this year’s Galaxy. Especially someone new to the sport, open to the sport, wanting to learn what’s good and fun about soccer. Here’s some math for you. Good and fun soccer = 1/2017 Galaxy. This season cannot end fast enough, and I can’t want to pretend it never happened.

    Promotion and relegation means MLS marketing the 2017 LA Galaxy. And the equivalent of the 2017 LA Galaxy. Every season.

    Teams in MLS that are trying to clinch a playoff spot come in all forms. Some are just kinda there. Some had a hot start, and have given themselves way too much drama at exactly the wrong time. (FC Dallas, wave to the nice people.) And some have made a couple of changes, added a player or two in the transfer window, and are about to play the best soccer in the league from here on out.

    That’s what you want to show to disaffected gridiron fan. Not the Chargers’ worthless roommates.

    What gridiron does right? They show good teams playing other good teams whenever possible. Good teams playing not-so-good teams when the good matchups aren’t available. Because among other reasons, they have decades of data showing that good teams get more viewers than bad teams.

    Let’s say MLS takes Deloitte’s advice, and starts kicking teams out of the league. Millions, perhaps even thousands, watch the Galaxy do its imitation of Titanic passengers being rescued by the Hindenburg. Maybe the Galaxy survive, maybe they don't. But they watched the Galaxy, instead of something, you know, not hideous.

    Have we made those viewers into soccer fans? Or Something At Stake fans?

    That would be nice to know. But we don’t, because DeloitteUK’s Sports Business Group couldn’t be bothered to do anything more than take two games in England and one in Italy to extrapolate the entire history of the sport. Thanks, guys.

    But what I do know is that DeloitteUK, thanks to Reputable Polls and Notions, found that a huge cross-section of American soccer fans, or at least fans based in the United States, think it's absolutely crucial to have some kind of gimmick in order to watch American soccer.

    Remember, we're taking Deloitte and Reputable at their word here. Eighty-eight percent of American soccer fans. Not Eurosnobs. Not Mexican national team fans pointing and laughing. Not the Saturday morning pub crowd. Not the hipsters. American soccer fans.

    I really, really hope Reputable's methodology ends up as untrustworthy as DeloitteUK's. Because otherwise - we haven't spent the past twenty-plus years making people into soccer fans. We've just turned them into people who slow down to watch traffic accidents.

    Oh, and Chart 5 on page 16 of the Deloitte report is the same one as Chart 14 on page 29. DeloitteUK just didn’t care.

    It’s weird, the NFL never plays on Fridays. Is high school football really so big that the NFFL (second F deliberate) has to kowtow to a bunch of pimply-faced teens? What does THAT say about America, I wonder.

    Next: Let's take a break and watch World Cup qualifiers! Winners get promoted to playing next summer, losers get relegated to...not playing next summer. You know, I’m starting to think you don’t need relegation to enjoy this sport.
     

Comments

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Dan Loney, Aug 30, 2017.

    1. Paul Calixte

      Paul Calixte Moderator
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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      "I’d expand on that thought by reminding everyone that thanks to Liga MX, we could even compare ratings for playoff implication games versus games with relegation implications."

      Except that in Mexico, those games can be one and the same. Case in point: the end of the Liga MX Clausura 2017 regular season, when Morelia beat Monterrey in the last minute to avoid relegation and reach the playoffs! :eek:

      * The reason being that in Mexico, relegation isn't based on that particular year, but an average of points gained over the last three years, so you can have a team on the cusp of the playoffs (or even finishing in the Top 8, e.g. Querétaro right before they "went down") and still in relegation trouble because of crappy campaigns two years ago.
       
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    2. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      I have to say, I think you went lightly on them here.

      We're frequently told about "narratives" and "the journey" (which of course, you did cover extensively), yet here we have a report that says repeatedly about its own examples "this was x percent higher than 'whoever's' other dozen televised matches".

      When it's a top flight title race, broadcasters throw on as many games as possible that have potential ramifications for it. They even televise Arsenal, Liverpool and post-Fergie Man United extensively, on the off-chance that any of them live up their billing.

      As I've said for years, barring a few crunch games each year, promotion and relegation in itself isn't that much of a draw.
       
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    3. Cavan9

      Cavan9 Member

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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      The survey respondents may have said one thing but actual fan/TV viewer behavior says another. Fans show up/tune in when the team is good and stay away/tune out when the team is not good. That's the universal truth, regardless of pro/rel, open vs. closed, or any other not-very-important competition format gimmicks.

      One exception is expansion teams, where many fans are there for the novelty but may lose interest in the medium term. For example, The Pigeons. Another exception is if the team plays in a stadium that is crumbling, looks dirty, and repellent to many fans. For example, DC United until Buzzard Point opens up. Once that medium term passes, those teams follow the same trend as anyone else.

      The fans coming out for Middlesbrough games weren't there because of pro/rel. They were there because their team was winning most of its games. Once the team goes up to the EPL and loses most of its games, its attendence will drop again.
       
    4. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      I agree with most of what you said, apart from this (somewhat).

      They will most likely have near-sellouts for the majority of the season after going up. You'll get you fair-weather fans, people who just want to see live EPL football (especially when the big guns visit), as well as the usual punters.

      Now if they stay up for an extended period and become mediocre or bad, attendances will likely see reduction over time. However, they'll still typically see better attendances than when they were in the Championship, except perhaps when they were in strong promotion contention.

      And I don't think this can be said too many times: English D2 attendance isn't typical. Aside from the Championship and 2.Bundesliga, second tiers average four figures pretty much across the board.

      In fact compared to soccer leagues around the world, NASL & USL (outside the MLS2 clubs, which are a mitigating circumstance) pull reasonable D2 numbers without pro/rel.
       
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    5. MM66

      MM66 Member

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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Just on person's take, but this Deloitte report strikes me more as an exploratory attempt on how to sell pro-rel in the U.S. when/if FIFA finally puts the clamps on the number of teams in MLS (e.g. you've got too many and you need to present a plan for getting down to 20). MLS owners are never going to choose to do pro-rel of their own accord. We know that. But if the league certification, the ability of the USMNT to compete in international games and the 2026 World Cup hosting gig hangs in the balance, then they'll figure it out.

      Ultimately, it doesn't matter if any of us are for or against it. It's a matter of whether FIFA forces it. Deloitte's been engaged by someone who ultimately wants to make money off of it. If you're against pro-rel what might concern you is why do they think that might be coming? Do they know something we don't?
       
    6. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

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      #7 barroldinho, Aug 31, 2017
      Last edited: Aug 31, 2017

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      @Yoshou posted this on the "Soccer in the USA" pro/rel thread.

      While FIFA would probably like everyone to use pro/rel, the FIFA statute was primarily written to reinforce the integrity of leagues that already had open systems. An emerging issue (that ironically, the statute hasn't really stopped, based on subsequent events in Mexio and China) was the purchase, relocation and rebranding of clubs to avoid having to move up the ladder, or to counteract relegation (google Queretaro's most recent "relegation").

      There's very little chance that FIFA is going to force the USA to adopt the system, especially as they were the ones whose mandate resulted in the birth of MLS and how long they've been yearning for soccer to take off here.
       
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    7. MM66

      MM66 Member

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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      I don't serve in the executive circles of FIFA, so I don't know what they're likely to do. From afar they seem capricious. What could put MLS in their crosshairs is other leagues making "but you let MLS do it" arguments. On top of that, I suspect there's just the general pissing contest - you didn't invent this sport, this is how we do leagues, fall in line. Like you said, FIFA probably wants that kind of uniformity and it can always come up with a new rule if someone tries to lawyer an existing one.

      Anyway, I'll go back to my earlier point. I think everyone recognizes MLS owners aren't going to institute pro-rel without a cudgel forcing them to do it. Obviously somebody thought it was worth commissioning Deloitte to do a report despite that. Did they do that based on some information from the folks who could make pro-rel happen or what it purely speculative? For me, that's more important than the particulars of the report.
       
    8. mschofield

      mschofield Member+

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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Those crosshairs wouldn't be so much from a FIFA scope but a UEFA one. In the end, as long the game grows in popularly and, much more importantly to FIFA, the WC remains the extranational, money churning beast it is, FIFA is happy to bank checks. UEFA has a lot of unhappy clubs to deal with when the big ones start talking about super leagues, so a lot of headaches.
       
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    9. Zoidberg

      Zoidberg Member+

      Jun 23, 2006

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      FIFA only forces rules on leagues/countries it can bully.

      10 to 15 years ago, Sepp at the height of his power, tried to force 18 team leagues.....mostly because he and his cronies wanted to schedule more and more international games so that they could skim and make more money. To many CL games and league matches got in the way. The big leagues, even if they were at 18 teams were getting pissed at all of the meaningless friendly matches, player injuries in these meaningless international matches, where they received no compensation for that lost player, and expanded WC qualification system to make even more on top of the meaningless crap.

      Local governments told him to F Off. He had zero jurisdiction, and he wasn't going to challenge the big leagues whose stars he needed. You bully the small, poorer countries who are desperate for your money. Not the ones you need to make you money.

      The thought that FIFA will force the US to reduce it's league to 20 teams is simply naive to laughable. First off it is illegal and would hold no water here in US courts, and yeah....let's piss off our biggest cash cow.

      I'm sorry, but folks who think FIFA has the local legal authority, or will actually try to force their cash cow to change by penalizing it somehow are simply out of their depth knowledge wise.
      Simply no other way to put it. Truth hurts, but way to much delusion here. Well...internet soccer board full of kids....so it's expected, but still....learn something kids.
       
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    10. Zoidberg

      Zoidberg Member+

      Jun 23, 2006

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Oh yeah....Siva commissioned Deloitte because he wants in on the money, but doesn't want to pay, suffer, take the time, or put in the effort all before him did.

      IOW's the snake wants in cheap, and he wants to reap the massive rewards built by others without paying.

      No one wanted in when MLS was floundering and there was a 10 mill buy in. MLS was desperate. Soccer looked dead again. There were no takers. All of a sudden everyone wants in after others have made it work. Shocking. The snakes always come out, and try to use the law, righteousness, competitiveness, whatever feel good BS available to manipulate the ignorant and kids. Silva is doing just that.

      The naiveness is astounding, the lack of knowledge is astounding....welcome to the age of social media. Welcome to ignorance and youth without an educated media and adult population who understands the game. It's why that snake Klinnsman got away with murder, and why an unqualified academic keeps his job. Sad state of affairs.

      I have four decades in high end corporate America....the Deloitte report is laughbaly embarrassing.
      Any adult understands this....the kids and ignorant....they just see and hear what they want.
       
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    11. Zoidberg

      Zoidberg Member+

      Jun 23, 2006

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Just to pile on....anyone who doesn't understand that consultants invariably always find a way to justify/back the people who pay them (Silva), who basically tell them what they are looking for before the study, really just aren't very bright. No toher way to say it. Sorry to hurt your feelings millennials.

      Deloitte was trying incredibly hard....and they came up with a pretty embarrassing document.

      They know it.
       
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    12. aetraxx7

      aetraxx7 Member+

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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      I've enjoyed this series immensely. I hate this pro/rel nonsense that is backed by the opinion of a few American soccer fans and based on what works in European countries. Everything about the US is different from our geography to our population disbursement, and, most relevant here, our sporting culture and options.

      I'd shoot he damn TV at that point. Nobody should watch Iowa every week. Hawkeye fans are the worst representation of my home state imaginable.

      I sense your sarcasm, but as an Iowa resident, I can say that this sentiment is shared among non-Hawkeye fans, as well as a few Hawks. He is the state's highest paid public employee and the Hawkeyes are an over-hyped
       
    13. Cavan9

      Cavan9 Member

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      DC United
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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      This is all that matters. The owner of the Miami NASL team is trying to get a piece of an asset (MLS/SUM) without having to buy a share of it. It's cheaper for him to pay Deloitte UK to cut and paste bullshit from from an espnfc comment thread than it is for him to pay the fee to enter the partnership known as MLS and SUM.

      No. No they do not. Bullshitters gonna bullshit. Nothing more.
       
    14. Cavan9

      Cavan9 Member

      Nov 16, 2011
      Silver Spring, MD
      Club:
      DC United
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      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      I'm a millennial and you didn't hurt my feelings. I have a financial education and work with business people and completely agree with your assessment of Silva's actions. No need to insult an entire generation because a bunch of people of unknown age on a soccer board don't get it.

      Agreed. Hence why this work was sent to Deloitte UK. Nobody in any of the U.S. Deloitte offices wanted their name associated with this career stain. With Deloitte UK putting its name on it, the report will be forgotten as it should be.
       
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    15. Zoidberg

      Zoidberg Member+

      Jun 23, 2006

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Apologize....guess it's just that I don't want to take my "how to deal with milennial classes"
      corporate forces all senior managemnt to take now.

      They all boil down to.....let them know they are valued (plenety of rewards, nice words and pats on the back for accomplishing the most menial tasks,) and don't hurt their feelings (it's easy). Yes, not all are like that, but having gone through all the different generations over the last four deacdes I have never had any issues until this one.

      I pretty much told folks we were exactly like that but in slightly different ways, as each older generation invariably complained about the younger generations.

      Gotta say, on a broad spectrum I have a problem with this one. Maybe it means I am at the end of my rope and I have finally hit "get off my lawn status." Then again, up and down the spectrum it doen't seem like it's just me and my generation who have issues with this generation.

      Thanks for the response....appreciate it....I apologize to you.
       
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    16. Cavan9

      Cavan9 Member

      Nov 16, 2011
      Silver Spring, MD
      Club:
      DC United
      Country:
      United States

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Before World War II, the Lost Generation who fought in World War I said similar things about their children who became the Greatest Generation as what the Greatest Generation said about the Boomers and which the Boomers say about Millenials. Boomers also said similar things about the Greatest Generation that we now say about Boomers. And so the world turns.

      For the record, we Millenials say that the Boomers are spoiled and financially wreckless because you were given the greatest economy and middle class in the history of the world but gave us income inequality and the Great Recession. We also view you as insensitive and gullible because you can't turn off cable so-called news and then pop off and say shallow and obvious "hot takes" out loud that are counterproductive rather than thinking before you speak.

      Apology accepted. These topics will be debated until the end of time. Just like how we will also always have gullible people who accept bullshit reports commissioned by rich people like Silva with an agenda rather than looking at them with healthy skepticism. My compliments to your understanding of business incentives.
       
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    17. Zoidberg

      Zoidberg Member+

      Jun 23, 2006

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      BTW .... get off my lawn.
       
      Cavan9, Sports Fan Stan and barroldinho repped this.
    18. Beau Dure

      Beau Dure Member+

      May 31, 2000
      Vienna, VA

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Meanwhile, Gen X plods along, forgotten and ignored ... sniff ...
       
      ScottyMac26, AndyMead, MM66 and 2 others repped this.
    19. MM66

      MM66 Member

      Mar 9, 2009
      Brookline, MA
      Club:
      Real Madrid

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      FIFA doesn't need local legal authority to penalize US Soccer or decertify the league if MLS violates its edicts. It doesn't need local legal authority to award World Cup bids to other nations. And messing with MLS in no way endangers the American cash cow. You think Coca-Cola, McDonald's and Budweiser care about any of this? Grow up indeed.

      I have no idea if FIFA officials have any disposition to tackle MLS league size, but I do know it's the one and only way pro-rel comes to MLS. Whether you're for or against pro-rel, FIFA is the body that bears watching.
       
    20. Dan Loney

      Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

      Mar 10, 2000
      Cincilluminati
      Club:
      Los Angeles Sol
      Country:
      Philippines

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      As far as forcing leagues to adopt it, sure. There's nothing preventing a league from implementing it themselves.
       
    21. Cavan9

      Cavan9 Member

      Nov 16, 2011
      Silver Spring, MD
      Club:
      DC United
      Country:
      United States

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      What would be in it for FIFA? What do they have to gain by messing with a member FA's league structure?
       
    22. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

      Aug 13, 2007
      Ex-pat in HB, CA
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Country:
      England

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Very little in this case.

      In the unlikely event that the CAS arbitration went ahead and was successful, it would potentially open up a precedent that FIFA must enforce statutes verbatim across the board.

      That's mean no cross border clubs, so goodbye Swansea, Cardiff & Wrexham from the English system. No Canadian clubs in the US. Monaco out of France.

      UK nats would have to merge... maybe UK league structure?

      Many other examples.

      Can of worms.

      Or of course, FIFA could just revive it's statutes under the claim that forcing pro/rel on closed leagues was never the plan.
       
      Cavan9 repped this.
    23. Paul Calixte

      Paul Calixte Moderator
      Staff Member

      Orlando City SC
      Apr 30, 2009
      Miami, FL
      Club:
      Orlando City SC
      Country:
      United States

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      Hey Dan, Bruce wants a word with you about your previous article:

      :D
       
    24. Dan Loney

      Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

      Mar 10, 2000
      Cincilluminati
      Club:
      Los Angeles Sol
      Country:
      Philippines

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 3

      By Dan Loney on Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
      In all seriousness, Arena had some great, great observations about Pulisic getting fouled out of the game. He's right that Christian can't get frustrated by that...but neither can Bruce Arena.
       

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