Eredivisie like the mid-level Hex teams formed the limits of pre-2016 Jozy's prowess. Touch and movement. The higher level of the EPL happened. His poor movement and touch were exposed. He had always been a brilliant mid-level Hex, MLS, Eredivisie player. The performances Jozy has put in this year hint at greater things to come. But not in competitive matches. Yeah. I mean, one could conclude La Liga and the EPL's higher levels compared to those of the Eredivisie and MLS exposed Jozy's weaknesses. You might want to see a doctor for that.
So, the EPL "exposed" his weakness, he fixed it in 32 minutes for Toronto? It's just a silly argument. There is no way a player suddenly manifests "weaknesses" from a single game to the next, and overcomes those "weaknesses" in 32 minutes. It is very possible that the EPL is the wrong type of league for Jozy's strengths. It is certain that Sunderland from 2013 - 2015 was the wrong team for Jozy (and every striker) to score at rates anywhere near their historic bests. That's just obvious fact. The thing that I am arguing against is that there is some fundamental difference in Jozy's game from July 2013 to August 2013 that moved him from a very successful ered striker who also scored a goal v. Germany and 3 v. Bosnia-H to a "crappy" striker at S'land. Or that there was some fundamental change in Jozy's game's "weaknesses" from January 1 of 2015 when Jozy last pulled on a S'land shirt to January 8 of 2015 when Jozy scored against Chile or to March 2015 32 minutes in to his 1st game in March of 2015. The idea that his touch and movement substantially improved in that two weeks or two months defies everything we know about soccer and veteran players. Maybe he started yoga! It simply defies logic or anyone's understanding of athlete's physiology that Jozy "fixed" any "weaknesses" in those fews days or months. His change is scoring was clearly more situational than personal. Now, is his skill set simply not cut out for the EPL? That's certainly possible. But it was not because he suddenly developed "weaknesses" that he magically cured in January 2015 (unless Santa brought him some magic boots!) Last goal, a few weeks before Sunderland. First goal 2 weeks apres Sunderland. Spot the weakness fix!
Are you that daft? You're arguing with yourself. Jozy had 3 goals across 79 appearances with Villareal, Hull City, and Sunderland. That is an undeniable fact. The reasonable conclusion is he wasn't ready for that level of futbol. Intelligent thinking starts with the exclusion of friendlies! You're arguing with yourself again. La Liga>EPL>>>Eredivisie>MLS. That was the situation.
But you argued he fixed some "weakness" not that EPL was a league too far. Now you are changing your argument. That Jozy is not cut out for EPL and is at best a top level Ered/MLS striker is a much more compelling argument than that he "fixed" his "weaknesses" of "touch and movement" from Jan 1, 2015 to Jan 28, 2015. It is pretty funny, though, that I'm arguing with "myself" yet other folks' posts continue to appear. That's pretty funny. "I... see... posters..."
Yeah, the level of the leagues exposed his weaknesses. There is nothing inconsistent for those who can follow an argument. You're arguing with yourself, bro. Jozy lost weight before entering the 2016 season. I have stated this time and time and time again. Yet, you bring up the bolded time frame, as though that has any f*&% relevance to my posts. His improvement was evident as early as the 2016 January Camp. His movement and touch are better now. In his last full EPL season, Jozy won 37% of his aerials. In his first season with TFC, he won 40%. This year, he is winning 60%. I am guessing this improvement is due to the weight loss. To what do you ascribe this improvement?
he was too young at Villarreal and wasn't he like 3rd or 4th choice? He was played on the wing while in Turkey for sure he flopped in the PL. But so many more talented players have done the same. They excel in Spain or Italy and flop in England or they excel in England but flop in Germany
It's so interesting I'm arguing with myself "bro" when posts from you keep appearing on my screen. I'll have to call IT. Meanwhile, I don't know why his all-important "winning aerails" improved. I'm going to suggest it may be a small sample size, but I have not looked. I can say for certain that in my limited 40 + years of soccer experience, most players "winning aerials" numbers don't improve as a result of "touch." I suppose they could improve as a result of "movement" but generally that's not the thing that improves your "aerial" winnings. Meanwhile, rather than dealing with more obscure metrics, how about we get back to the discussion at hand. How did Jozy's "touch and movement" magically improve from Jan 1, 2015 to Jan 28, 2015 - or even March 2015, if we want to use the magic "goals in friendlies aren't goals" get out of jail free card. (did you watch that goal? How was the movement? How was the touch on the shot? I can repost it if you'd like.) GTG. Calling about this ghost in this machine. It keeps arguing with me.
4700 minutes make for a small size. Got it. Losing weight tends to help with movement. This shouldn't be difficult to comprehend. Altidore moved to an easier league in 2015. His numbers unsurprisingly improved; however, performances were derisory, as Gio carried the team. This season, Jozy has been a monster. I am looking for big things from him against Mexico.
Wow. Those posts keeping coming! I hate technology. You do know that Jozy's "derisory" performance in 2015 included him making the top 10 for scoring, and being the only top 10 scorer with less than 1800 mins? He had a better GPG rate than Wright-Phillips, Villa or Wondo and the 2nd best Goals Per Shot stat in all of MLS (or at least anyone who made the top 30 or so.) So, ok, if Jozy was "derisory" then Clint Dempsey was? Again, the thing you can't address is that Jozy's form simply crashed when he stepped in the dysfunctional S'land locker room and began to play for a team of drunks lead by a lunatic. The question is did that form disappear because Jozy suddenly lost his "touch and movement" and that same touch and movement miraculously "improved" within 32 minutes of his first MLS game, or whether the game-day situation at S'land did not play to, or leverage off of, Jozy's strengths. I would suggest the later is a greater contributor than the former. I watched a lot of Jozy at AZ. And way too much at S'land. His game did not change substantially. How he was deployed changed substantially. The way his support players played changed substantially. And I would not doubt that for a guy that seems a fairly sincere 7th Day Adventist, the locker room at S'land was probably a bit depressing. But I think most analysis about differences in his actual play and ability during his time at S'land, particularly those posters who said that his S'land time showed he "sucked" and only scored at AZ because "there is no defense in the Ered" or whatever other excuse some posters had, have been shown to be less than accurate. If you graph Jozy's scoring in games for club and country from the 2 years before Sland up to this season you will find there was only one really surprising dip - his production at S'land. Now, is it more likely that the S'land and/or the EPL was simply a poor fit for Jozy's talents, or that Jozy's talents suddenly evaporated, only to reappear when playing for the USMNT and then in MLS?
Yeah, last year, Jozy was pretty mediocre feeding off Gio's scraps. This season, he is creating a goal a game, scoring and assisting on a number difficult efforts. Are you ok? Nothing happened to his form. He simply wasn't good enough. He subsequently moved to an easier league where he scored some goals. Neither has he been used the same way at TFC as he was at AZ. How so? He has scored with 3 teams in the lesser leagues of MLS and the Eredivisie. He failed with 3 teams in Spain and England. He played with more than 1 team in England, didn't he?
Huh? You said he "fixed" his "weaknesses" which were "touch and movement." Did you forget that? He "fed off" gio's "scraps" to reach #10 in goals scored his 1st season in MLS with Toronto. He had a better GPG than 3 other top 10 scorers. (and Clint D among others.) He had a better Shot% than all but one other MLS top 30 scorer. And then before this season his Jenny Craig subscription turned him into a "beast" and fixed his "weaknesses" like "touch and movement." Ok.
Yeah, losing bulk can improve a player's movement and touch. Why has he been so dominant in the air this year when he'd been pretty weak before? Gio had 22 goals and 16 assists to make for one of the greatest single seasons in league history. Altidore didn't need to do much to take advantage.
The question, however, was not whether Jozy needed to "do much" to take advantage. It was whether the "weaknesses" in Jozy's "touch and movement" improved from his Sunderland sojourn. I see you don't want to actually discuss what you wrote. Yes, losing bulk "can" improve a player's movement (not so sure about touch.) But that fails to explain Jozy scoring at AZ, continuing to score for the USMNT and scoring his 1st USMNT game after leaving s'land and his first game in MLS. If you want to argue that the marginal increase in his productivity from last season to this is due to him losing some bulk, you perhaps have a bit more solid ground to stand on. But it is silly to contend that his lack of success in scoring at S'land was primarily due to him bulking up and therefore having a "weakness" in his "touch and movement." I don't think any serious football observer would claim that.
Ok. Like you clearly explained, Jozy losing his bulk after his 2015 MLS season clearly fixed his weakness in touch and movement just in time for him to score against Chile and in his 1st 2015 MLS game (where, clearly, 32 minutes into the season he was "feasting off Gio's scraps...") I'm pretty sure you're not getting it, I just can't determine if it's willfully or you just can't. You know, Bulky Jozy was player of the week his 1st week in MLS. He scored 2 goals his first game. You might have missed where I posted this, but his last two games before suiting up for S'land BulkyJozy scored 4 goals, one against Germany. And then you might have missed that his 1st game after leaving S'land BulkysJozy scored a goal. And maybe you misread where BulkyJozy was the only top-10 MLS scorer in 2015 with under 1800 minutes. And where he had a better GPG rate than Wright-Phillips, Villa and Wondo. Or where BulkyJozy had the 2nd best goals/shot ratio of all top MLS scorers in 2015. And that while at Sunderland his big bad bulky self continued to score for the USMNT at a rate of 4 goals in 9 games. I think maybe you missed those points, so I retyped them, s l o w l y this time.
Improved. He improved with the weight loss. Only you are claiming 'fixed'. MLS is an easier league. We scored 4 goals in a friendly against Germany. So what? Jozy is the king of friendlies. Great.
Well, you said he had "weakness" that "needed work" at Sunderland and you attribute his "beast" year to losing bulk, yet his MLS scoring rate and his pre-Sunderland scoring rate and his USMNT scoring rate over that entire time are closer to each other than his scoring rate at Sunderland. So if you don't like "fixed" ok. "Improved" these weaknesses? So his touch and movement were still "weaknesses" in 2015 MLS, but they "improved?" by him losing bulk in 2016 MLS? Just to review, BulkyJozy's scoring rate dropped precipitously the moment he started at Sunderland and it jumped hugely the moment he played outside of Sunderland. And his MLS strike rate has improved some this year, but not close to how much it jumped from leaving Sunderland. So I'm going to suggest that while his losing some bulk has not hurt him, and maybe even helped him, the biggest boost to his game was getting out of the EPL and away from Sunderland. That was not a good fit for him. I'm also going to suggest, having watched a lot of Jozy for the past couple of years, that his game right now is not much different than how he's played for the past 5 years. I do think that Sunderland improved his ability to back into defenders at the tip of the spear and he learned how to use his body better to ride off challenges once he get the ball and wants to turn.
Its not just his time at Sunderland where he's struggled. Also at Hull, also at Villareal, and also for USA in competitive games against high level competition. What's so tough to understand about that criticism? Its great that he's doing very well this year--we hope to see him bring it against mexico and nab a couple of goals. With Pulisic setting him up, anything is possible.
Jozy has played striker for NYRB, Villarreal, Hull City, AZ, Sunderland, and TFC. His league-to-league goal scoring success very clearly tracked the league levels at which he played. MLS is a much, much easier league than the EPL. Eredivisie is easier than La Liga and the EPL. My argument is he has made a marked improvement this year, following his weight loss in the off season. This is reflected in his prowess in aerials(40% to 60%), his WhoScored rating at striker(6.88 to 7.34), and his goal creation rate(.65/90min to 1/90min). Altidore has improved his class in the 2nd year of his 2nd MLS stint. This has nothing to do with Sunderland or whatever. Finally, he looks a classier player, one more nimble, indefatigable, and technical.
So 31 goals in 41 games in Holland Jozy was less classy than 8 in 18 in MLS Jozy? Because he is fitter? Because he is healthier? I'd say experience, environment, and health are better and those things don't change how classy a player is, they allow for better production which gives people charismatic data points to latch onto. For instance Jozy said, when this hot streak started, that he was playing better early in the season than now, and I agreed with him. While he wasn't scoring then he was doing all the little things and the hard work to score better than when he got back to health. Now he's combining the two. Last year Jozy scored often but I saw that he wasn't playing well enough overall. He, because of his class, could take the chances that fell to him and capitalize but he wasn't helping his team win. He has improved at doing the little things throughout his career (it's almost like target forward skills are acquired as players gain experience). Sunderland hurt his mentality, he had to work his way through it, he had to breakdown and buildup his health and now he's performing well.
Nothing is tough to understand about the criticism, except that idea that there was some fundamental change in Jozy's game that occurred between June 2103 and August 2013 and magically cleared up between Jan 1, 2015 and Jan 28, 2015. And that now, all of a sudden, between MLS 2015 and MLS 2016 he's lost some "bulk" (remember how he needed yoga before going to AZ) and become a player worthy of national team consideration. That is the part that is absurd. That people can't see (or admit?) that the range that Jozy has performed in has been fairly constant, and that the style of play that plays to his strength is fairly obvious, and that Sunderland was a nightmare club for a number of players - and coaches - and that while Jozy, like any player, has some ups and downs in his career, he never was the crash-and-burn some posters accused him of being while at S'land. This thread is about debunking that unsupported Jozy "hate" - and clearly some folks are still having a hard time letting go.
Perhaps you never watched him at AZ, so this might be a revelation to you. But he was at about a goal a game "creation" rate there, right before he went to S'land. And he was fairly classy. You should look up some of the games. You might enjoy them.
Who the hell claimed any of this? You have fundamentally failed to follow the thread. Are you ok? This was all a piss take then.