Debunking the Jozy Altidore Hate on BigSoccer

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by olephill2, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    They both seem very comfortable drifting out left particularly, I don't see why they can't interchange and share the space.
     
  2. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    But really, given the current roster choices, you're trading either Bedoya, Zardes or Zusi - for one of Demps, Wood or Jozy. I'm not sure you lose that much creativity there. I think you lose 2-way play and defensive workrate, essentially trading Demps for one of those three (or, I guess, Nagbe)

    It has its issues, for sure, but adding Dempsey to the midfield at the expense of Bedoya or Zardes is not really a net loss in creativity. Mobility, sure.
     
  3. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I'm almost certain that I've made that very argument years ago. They can play together, they'd probably do very well in some situations. Giovinco similarly likes to drift left and in general Toronto lets him set up higher than Jozy. Imagine Jozy's range as an A with the point at the penalty spot and Giovinco's range an A with its point at the midfield.

    Clint's latest heat map is similar to Jozy's except less defensive-half activity and more concentration along the "legs" of the A. So if both are starting someone else has to bring that attacking threat into/from the corners to stretch the defense or they have to be specifically instructed to do something that goes against their natural tendencies, which is not a strong suit of the current administration.


    Compared to how things are built now it's not a net loss. Compared to how things should be built there is an issue I see (which could be fixed with excellent coaching so don't count on it). I thought about bringing up mobility/motor because it's a trade off being made and I'm not sure that the added attacking impetus (which is fairly redundant and not about orchestrating attacks) makes up for it.

    For me the best way to play all 3 together is a trident with Bobby at the tip. The best tridents of recent memory were: Forlan, Cavani, Suarez; Lavezzi, Cavani, Hamsik; 3/4 of Sturridge, Saurez, Coutinho, Sterling; Schevchenko, Kaka, Seedorf/Rui Costa/Crespo. So just in general there are at least 2 guys who are really mobile. That's needed to provide attacking threat throughout the attacking half (deep and short, wide and central). Then on defense we would need to play something more medium/low pressure.

    Then there are also fitness concerns when planning for a major tournament and aging.
     
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  4. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010
    Jozy appears to be highly motivated at the moment. The only question I have is if he can remain healthy. If the answer to those two questions is yes then no question he should remain in the pool but he has lost lock starter status. Hopefully soon the pool will be deep enough that we have zero lock starters.
     
  5. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm all in favor of competition for positions and a big player pool. But what national team doesn't have at least a few "lock starters?"
     
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  6. Three and Three

    Sep 13, 2015
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    By the way, since when is criticism tantamount to hate? Semantic extension is one thing. But come on, huh?
     
  7. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway
    #307 SpencerNY, Aug 25, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
    When every bad touch, missed pass, off-target strike, un-won header and movement is scrutinized to the point of absurdity. For some, if he hasn't scored or gotten an assist he's a totally useless lump. These are usually the same clowns who are dishonest about his time in Europe--pointing out all the failures and belittling any success he had (the LOLZ Eredivisie sucks crowd) all the while ignoring any extenuating circumstances that might have existed.

    Most of us who had to endure years of the same type of criticism leveled at Landon will understand this.
     
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  8. Three and Three

    Sep 13, 2015
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    That would be absurd scrutiny, then, not hatred.
     
  9. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway
    Fine, lobby the OP to change the thread title to Debunking the Jozy Altidore Absurd Scrutiny if that makes you feel better.
     
  10. Three and Three

    Sep 13, 2015
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Not a bad idea.
     
  11. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Absurd Scrutinyers gonna Absurd Scrutiny...
     
  12. shnaggletooth

    shnaggletooth Member+

    Jun 23, 2002
    It's now or never for Jozy (as far as USMNT is concerned). With Demps out of the picture, this is his time to shine. Just hope he stays healthy, for once.
     
  13. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Bigger opportunity for Wood, really. Jozy is what Jozy is. If Bobby can bring it now, he could seal his spot.
     
  14. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wood's goal from Sat. was superb
     
  15. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Will be nice to see a fully fit and confident Altidore against these two minnows. He by all rights should just boss these games. I have a feeling we see a 2-3 goal performance over the next two games for Jozy.

    Most importantly I think we need to see a partnership develop b/w he and Bobby. I've always been a big fan of a 2 striker system. Gives the back 4 two guys to worry about as opposed to have the central two be able to shut down the single striker.
     
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  16. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    News flash, one of those minnows is ahead of us and they will be playing for a tie when we play them at home. I would be surprised if Jozy has a better 2 game outing than Wood.
     
  17. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eh, just because we have underwhelmed in qualification doesn't make those teams ahead of us any bigger. T and T is a minnow on the world stage no matter how badly we perform in qualifiers. It just makes us look badly when we struggle against the likes of these teams.
     
  18. Bclay

    Bclay Member

    May 29, 2012
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only scenario where they play for a draw are if they lose against Guatemala at home, and we draw/lose to SVG. Very unlikely.
     
  19. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe things can get complicated if Guatemala wins against TT. We should beat SVG.
    That would give us 10 points with TT 10 and Guatemala 9
    Final round Guatemala plays SVG which they should win, giving them 12.
    That means we would need to win since the tiebreaker (goal differential) is +1 favoriting TT.
     
  20. Bclay

    Bclay Member

    May 29, 2012
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right, T&T owns the tie breaker right now. If we win and T&T lose then our GD goes up by at least 1 and theirs drops by at least 1, guaranteeing we have the tiebreaker. And therefore a draw against us in the final game knocks them out (assuming Guatemala beat SVG).
     
  21. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

    Jun 23, 2009
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's in form right now but not going to improve vastly, already 26. He continues to get called up because we're not exactly deep at people who can put the ball into the net. Frustrating player at times due to his workrate and body language, along with the first touch. You take the good with the bad really.

    I have Wood as the starter over him. He earned it at Copa America. Likely both with start.
     
  22. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For some even his goals and assists have been scrutinized. There are some people that simply see jozys as a waste of space in the usmn picture and won't change their mind barring a golden boot while hoisting the World Cup... And even then they were probably just tap ins
     
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  23. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not saying he's great. He has flaws but some seem to take those flaws and ignore his strengths
     
  24. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are correct, forgot about us winning by more than one goal vs. SVG thus, getting the tie breaker.
     

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