Das Reboot and the Road to UEFA Nations League & EC2020

Karl-Heinz Riedle · Nov 16, 2018

Dage said: ↑

Havertz at striker position is just wasted. He has great vision and is also very capable of tackling opponents. He needs to have the play in front of him, both in attack and in defense. He also has a great passing range. His scoring abilities are just the cherry on the cake. He's a midfielder and wasted out on the wing or on the striker position. It's very similar to Reus's and Özil's who both are wasted upfront. Havertz is probably what others expected Goretzka to become.
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Why is having good vision a reason he can’t play striker?

Why is playing an all-round talent at striker is a Waste? Is Johan Cruyff playing up top a waste?

We have many central midfielders and Havertz is not good at defence. He should be used closer to final third.

Kimmich/Emre Can + Kroos/Gundogan/Goretzka/Maxi Eggestein

Should be good CMs options.

Karl-Heinz Riedle · Nov 16, 2018

Lewisfromuk said: ↑

I also agree putting Havertz up front as a striker is a waste, he is the biggest talent of the current new generation. He should be given a Ozil role behind the front 3. he can deliver killer pass, he can tackle, he can come in behind to score..too complete to be wasted limiting him to be a striker stationing inside the penalty box. The team should build around him
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No striker is “stationing inside the penalty box” anymore

Lukaku, Kane, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Jovic alsways track Back n involve in build-up play

Giroud too actually.

Striker talent is more difficult to find than CM. If there is no striker anyway, why is it a waste?

I think it’s a waste to play Petersen or Werner as striker for the Nt

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

Kai Havertz: "I always try to direct the play and get my teammates involved. I did well in the first half. I was very happy to start against Russia, it was always a dream of mine. But there's always room for improvement and many things I can improve" [Bild]

Kimmich: "For me Kai was the best player on the pitch. He's always found the right solution and never hidden. He always has his head up, got a great technique and vision. If he goes on like that, he will soon become a vital part of the DFB team"

Jordan Khamra · Nov 16, 2018

Havertz was so impressive yesterday. I read all the debate about playing him as a CF and how other players like Lewandowski and Saurez are lethal #9 now but were deployed in other positions in their earlier days. Could Havertz be converted in a #9 similar to what happened with Lewandowski and Saurez? Maybe. It can't be something that the NT coach does, it has to happen at club level. I can't see the NT depending on CF long term that plays midfield with their club.

Thomsen · Nov 16, 2018

I mean, we've talked about the offensive players of Germany after yesterday's game but I'm not sure at all about Ginter nor as a RB or as a CB in a back-trio? I mean there's zero creativity coming forward from him, zero good balls to midfield, build up play is rather poor - why is he there then?

Can he defend? I'd say yes. Is he a great defensive player? I'd say yes. Is he good enough for the NT? I'd say no. I mean to me, modern football requires today players able to contribute both offensively and defensively. How I've seen Ginter after the WC says me that he's done a decent job but not good enough to actually start important matches. So I feel like in games like yesterday, Ginter's completely exposed when the opposition isn't better and Germany's dominating.

So in a back trio I'd prefer Hummels playing centrally with Süle at his side and then the third spot is up for grab and then maybe Ginter as Hummels doing a lot in the build-up play for Bayern and country. If it's something Süle can approve, it's his build-up play but I'm taking it for granted that he's improving that area of his game until the Euro 2020 now that he's starting a majority of the matches for Bayern.

Thomsen · Nov 16, 2018

Jordan Khamra said: ↑

Havertz was so impressive yesterday. I read all the debate about playing him as a CF and how other players like Lewandowski and Saurez are lethal #9 now but were deployed in other positions in their earlier days. Could Havertz be converted in a #9 similar to what happened with Lewandowski and Saurez? Maybe. It can't be something that the NT coach does, it has to happen at club level. I can't see the NT depending on CF long term that plays midfield with their club.
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Definitely. As long as Havertz's playing midfield for club, I don't think he should or wants to play CF for the NT. I mean if Germany's that desperate to convert him to a forward... lol

saj7866 · Nov 16, 2018

Thomsen said: ↑

I mean, we've talked about the offensive players of Germany after yesterday's game but I'm not sure at all about Ginter nor as a RB or as a CB in a back-trio? I mean there's zero creativity coming forward from him, zero good balls to midfield, build up play is rather poor - why is he there then?

Can he defend? I'd say yes. Is he a great defensive player? I'd say yes. Is he good enough for the NT? I'd say no. I mean to me, modern football requires today players able to contribute both offensively and defensively. How I've seen Ginter after the WC says me that he's done a decent job but not good enough to actually start important matches. So I feel like in games like yesterday, Ginter's completely exposed when the opposition isn't better and Germany's dominating.

So in a back trio I'd prefer Hummels playing centrally with Süle at his side and then the third spot is up for grab and then maybe Ginter as Hummels doing a lot in the build-up play for Bayern and country. If it's something Süle can approve, it's his build-up play but I'm taking it for granted that he's improving that area of his game until the Euro 2020 now that he's starting a majority of the matches for Bayern.
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I agree, I think ginter is very limited, as third center back then rudiger has to be an option, he's commanding for Chelsea, and his ball distribution is good

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

it's a shame that Kempf/Stark are very injury prone.

we also have some interesting cbs from U21 NT and lower. Besides guys like Anton/Torunarigha are duals no guarantee the stay with Germany in long run if we ignore them post U21. Russia have shown interest in Anton and Torunarigha was offered a spot by Nigeria at the WC.

I think Ginter is better at Gladbach than his Dortmund days but I do feel like we could do better.

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

instead of Ginter, let's recall the CB who plays at Arsenal.

saj7866 · Nov 16, 2018

Ger90 said: ↑

instead of Ginter, let's recall the CB who plays at Arsenal.
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Mustafis a very ordinary defender, rudiger is a must, commanding and quick as well as good ball distribution

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

saj7866 said: ↑

Mustafis a very ordinary defender, rudiger is a must, commanding and quick as well as good ball distribution
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I'm joking, Mustafi and Draxler are the 2 German players that I cannot stand. Some others I'm not a giant fan of theirs but okay with their inclusion. Mustafi is a below ordinary, blunder CB.

liking what I'm seeing from the U21, currently leading 2-0 vs the Dutch. Shame that Kuntz isn't our coach. Not only is every striker on the team stated publicly that he helped them improve as strikers but the guy has very good defensive stability, has his players go for headers/duals/tackles, not tactically inept nor does he play favoritism. The players are going after every ball, much more aggressive than Low's Germany. In fact, things that Kuntz has publicly criticized like us ignoring the basics, he's going after those things.Unlike Low ignoring dribbling for ages until only post WC did he start going after such things.

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

as it stands it's RELEGATION for Germany.

Dutch 1-0 France HT.

saj7866 · Nov 16, 2018

Ger90 said: ↑

as it stands it's RELEGATION for Germany.

Dutch 1-0 France HT.
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Yes frustrating

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

so if we get relegated can we play an XI of kids vs the Dutch in what will be a meaningless game for us?

saj7866 · Nov 16, 2018

Ger90 said: ↑

I'm joking, Mustafi and Draxler are the 2 German players that I cannot stand. Some others I'm not a giant fan of theirs but okay with their inclusion. Mustafi is a below ordinary, blunder CB.

liking what I'm seeing from the U21, currently leading 2-0 vs the Dutch. Shame that Kuntz isn't our coach. Not only is every striker on the team stated publicly that he helped them improve as strikers but the guy has very good defensive stability, has his players go for headers/duals/tackles, not tactically inept nor does he play favoritism. The players are going after every ball, much more aggressive than Low's Germany. In fact, things that Kuntz has publicly criticized like us ignoring the basics, he's going after those things.Unlike Low ignoring dribbling for ages until only post WC did he start going after such things.
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Yes completely agree, Kuntz has done a fantastic job for the under 21's, surely a matter of time before he gets promotion to the full national job

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

saj7866 said: ↑

Yes completely agree, Kuntz has done a fantastic job for the under 21's, surely a matter of time before he gets promotion to the full national job
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I think it's too late for that, dfb won't axe Low until the 2020 EC min, contract until 2022 WC.

besides Low is only 2 years older than Kuntz, they are from the same generation.

the best we can hope for is that Kuntz stays as long as possible at the U21 and helps the transition from U21 to senior NT.

Low does consult him on the youth players.

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

and it's official we are relegated from NL as the Dutch beat France 2-0.

not only that but if the Dutch draw or beat Germany they win the Group to boot.

that's 2 consecutive competitive tournament where we end up bottom of the group.....And even worse this competition was between Germany and 2 rivals......

saj7866 · Nov 16, 2018

Gutted

nekkibasara · Nov 16, 2018

For me Rüdiger is no where near good enough. He is big and fast, but he is incredibly clumsy, has a horrible touch and looks like a disaster waiting to happen at least 2-3 times in every match.

For the forward line, I would prefer to start Stindl and use Werner as a sub.

————Kimmich———-
——Havertz—-Kroos——
Gnabry—-Stindl——Sane

That would be my first choice. Let Sane, Reus, Gnabry and Brandt battle for the starting wing positions.

At this point we have nothing to lose by integrating the young players. Just rip off the bandaid.

The Jitty Slitter · Nov 16, 2018

Loew raus

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

always wondered why is it that Germany always look iffy in defense? A lot of players don't look 100% convincing and I tend to find it's way too easy for the opponents to bypass our defense even without any high line shenanigans.

even Hummels-Boa, took them awhile before they started to become very consistent for the NT. But before then they also had some issues.

Blondo · Nov 16, 2018

Ger90 said: ↑

so if we get relegated can we play an XI of kids vs the Dutch in what will be a meaningless game for us?
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Top seed status during the ECQ draw is still at stake. If Germany lose the game against Holland they'll most likely go into pot 2. Iceland and one other League A team will end up in pot 2. ATM that's Germany (level on points with Poland, who have a superior goal difference though).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_UEFA_Nations_League_A#Overall_ranking

Also, Holland would overtake Germany on FIFA's ranking. Possibly Germany would lose top seed status during the WCQs draw next year. Only 4 ECQs left to improve your ranking ahead of the draw.

Ger90 · Nov 16, 2018

it's fine we can play WC 2022 playoffs.

saj7866 · Nov 16, 2018

nekkibasara said: ↑

For me Rüdiger is no where near good enough. He is big and fast, but he is incredibly clumsy, has a horrible touch and looks like a disaster waiting to happen at least 2-3 times in every match.

For the forward line, I would prefer to start Stindl and use Werner as a sub.

————Kimmich———-
——Havertz—-Kroos——
Gnabry—-Stindl——Sane

That would be my first choice. Let Sane, Reus, Gnabry and Brandt battle for the starting wing positions.

At this point we have nothing to lose by integrating the young players. Just rip off the bandaid.
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Well at chelsea he's very highly rated and been there rock at the back to build from, for germany it's a matter of building a chemistry between his defensive partner whenever he gets to play, as I see once he becomes a regular then you'll see the rudiger of chelsea that's a rock as well as being a good ball distributer

Karl-Heinz Riedle · Nov 16, 2018

nekkibasara said: ↑

For me Rüdiger is no where near good enough. He is big and fast, but he is incredibly clumsy, has a horrible touch and looks like a disaster waiting to happen at least 2-3 times in every match.

For the forward line, I would prefer to start Stindl and use Werner as a sub.

————Kimmich———-
——Havertz—-Kroos——
Gnabry—-Stindl——Sane

That would be my first choice. Let Sane, Reus, Gnabry and Brandt battle for the starting wing positions.

At this point we have nothing to lose by integrating the young players. Just rip off the bandaid.
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What’s the point of playing Stindl now

He is exactly a “striker” but can’t provide anything we need up top.

He is 30 years old , not playing particularly well in Gladbach

We have to find a long term solution now.