Das Martina-Upgrade: Sickle Cut Into Your Defense - Road to WWC 2019 [R]

Discussion in 'Germany Mädels: NT and Frauen-Bundesliga' started by Lea_Schueller, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I don't know what you were watching lol, but the use of the 3-4-3 saw MVT's team leave A LOT of space in the wide areas of the defense.

    But a way MVT seemed to try and negate the potential exploitation of this space, was to use the speed and comfort in wide areas of both Doorsoun, and Schweers, either side of a libero playing Hegering, who'd cover both of her CB's centrally in a very assured, if not 100% faultless display on her senior team debut.

    So Doorsoun, Hegering, Schweers, would also benefit from the added protection of a DM Leupolz in front of them while she was on the field too, but the idea MVT kept all her defenders rigid simply isn't true. The overall team shape was just more compact than it's been with past coaches.
     
  2. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    I think we have to be positive about the game and say that MVT is doing a great job with this team so far regardless if it should have happened or not - she really is shaping this team to be competitive when we get to France - and I'm fully convinced Germany will improve

    Personally I was very impressed with Hegering yesterday in a "back3" consisting of Doorsoun and Schweers as well - just curious if MVT will settle for these three because I can't see Elsig really fit in in this system at the moment, but I also think MVT wants to be flexible and have many strains to play on for the future - because I can't see the likes of Simon starting for Schweers in this system either

    I'd say the defense was very clever yesterday and finally a game where Germany were near flawless in the defensive parts of the game with great timing from Doorsoun and Hegering and good pressing
     
  3. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    But yeah, there's definitely question marks about the fact who should really play lol - and I pray to the gods that Martina has an idea how her starting eleven will be once we reach the WC

    So I really wouldn't count out this;

    Doorsoun - Hegering - Faisst
    Hendrich - Magull - Leupolz - Simon
    Marozsan
    Huth Popp

    This also having in mind that Däbritz most likely will play when she's fit as well
     
  4. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I agree... it's a positive/ideal format of preparation to try and see your tea, peak for serious tournament play. But I also feel it's only right that I acknowledge a few persistent concerns so close to the WC finals too, as it's still not 100% clear what MVT true intentions are with this team.

    This being a genuine concern for anybody knowing the wnt's struggles, not having a firm identity resulting in increasingly poor performances at numerous international events...:cautious:

    However, seeing a 3-4-3 work with such a stable defensive platform was honestly something close to being pleasantly surprising; watching a debutante Hegering appear so comfortable in a role I've never seen her play before.

    So it will be interesting to see what happens vs Japan, a team far more aware of the tactical nature of the game, and technically proficient to exploit any of the holes that could be open to them should MVT repeat Hrubesch mistakes, and sometimes neglect to select a DM for EVERY match her team plays.
     
  5. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #205 Batfink, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
    This is one of the better parts of the current player pool now, knowing there's actually a coach who will trust talent on the bench, believing them more than capable of coming into matches prepared to positively effect the course of play for their team.

    But it doesn't stop my annoyance at the thought Knaak could potentially win a place in the WC squad, when I 100% know a far better option will be missing because if this...:cautious:

    I mean... you had 23 players in the squad for the match vs Sweden, but the team was missing established names like Maier, Däbritz, Laudehr, Demann, Peter, Petermann. And also missing new potentials like Bühl, Pawollek, Lohmann, Gasper.

    So seeing Knaak start was pretty disappointing for me, thinking how low down on the ladder I'd realistically place her, if she was being truthfully compared to the other forwards and AM within this current player pool.
     
  6. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    lol... if MVT plans on continuing to use this 3-4-3, she'll have to justify selecting Knaak in a WC squad potentially featuring FW's and AM's like Popp, Däbritz, Marozsan, Huth, Schüller, Bremer, Dallmann, Gwinn, Magull.

    Meaning MVT really shouldn't be wasting time looking at using Knaak anymore. Not when she'll have created a seriously offensively unbalanced bench featuring Däbritz, Schüller, Bremer, Gwinn, Dallmann.

    Leaving a scenario where the return of Däbritz will simply mean 2 players need to depart the squad... and I honestly don't see how Knaak shouldn't be one of those names.
     
  7. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Germany still in need for a world class striker as Knaak, Maro, Popp, & Bremer flubbed their chances on the fast break(after they had the last defender beat). P
    Perhaps German fans might disagree cuz Jorgie didn't need one in 2014? Or maybe the missing Huth & Schuller could of scored on similar chances......

    I like that finally a coach who tries to mark out the opponents main attacker(s) out of the game. But it's been way more successful on the right side, as Schweers clumsy tackle on Jacobsson(that gave them the PK) could of been costly & perhaps fouling too much right outside the penalty box, could give the opponent dangerous, free kicks(though perhaps this is why MVT tries such a high line?)

    from the rest of world results; seem like the phrase; the world is catching up', is just NOT correct as the big 3, US, Germany & France all had convincing games. and then as usual , Japan doesn't want to play it's best until the WC/. Germany might have a win over France, but they way these two teams are trading victories, it might not be best to be on the upside)
     
  8. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Yes, I don't think Knaak should be anywhere near to basically occupy one of the spots in the roaster when we all know she doesn't have what it takes to come off the bench and change the game which might be needed - that being said I think she played well against Sweden so will she be able to sell her in on that? I don't like the idea of Knaak in the roaster either

    Doorsoun was brilliant and I really liked Hegering as well - pretty fast and agile, but if there's a plan playing a back trio with support from the "wingbacks" then perhaps I'd take Elsig in the center with Doorsoun and Hegering supporting and Faisst and Hendrich on the wingbacks with Leupolz as the defensive midfielder

    How many can be in the roaster for the WC - 23 players?
     
  9. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Gosh, Peter is done and dusted with the NT and I have serious doubts about Maier to be fair although I hope she makes it - Demann captained the WNT last year and isn't an option for the NT now is weird... she is great and would've been an unbelievable solid option to have on the bench

    Shoutout to Lena Oberdorf though, I thought she showed glimpses of the great player she will be in some years :D Lovely tackles - should she make the squad already now? Not sure, but I would love to see her in France if I'm honest because she'll be the next big thing - I definitely imagine her as a female Schweini for some reasons
     
  10. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Perhaps Schüller, hotjam? She's a great goal scorer. And hopefully Popp can start converting her chances because she has quite many of them during some games where she doesn't score

    The world is catching up, definitely, but doesn't mean that Germany have to be on the same level as we all know the player pool Germany have. I'm very optimistic about Germany's chances in France this summer - whether they have a real identity now or not is indifferent - fact is that they've played France and Sweden and managed two very convincing victories despite different formations

    So yes, I hope we'll see a flexible German team but with some core players playing no matter the system
     
  11. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I agree with the idea Germany having clinical forwards finally taking their numerous chances, would instantly make them a legitimate threat for anybody come the world cup.

    But I wouldn't dismiss the true full potential of what they have right now either, as I'm not going to think any MVT starting 11 featuring Knaak, Gwinn, Rauch, is at 100% full strength in the attacking areas of the field... not with players like Huth, Däbritz, Simon, Schüller, never seeing game time.
     
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Schweers rarely slide tackles anybody, making this highly unnecessary reckless challenge on Jacobsson inside the PK zone even more of a disappointment.

    However, this was also at a point in the match where Magull's ability to dictate the tempo had been removed from the team, with the back 3 no longer having Leupolz sat in front of them anymore either.

    Resulting in a final 15 mins where Germany lost a lot of their shape, placing more pressure on the 3 CB's now dealing with defensive scenario's that saw them appear almost careless/hurried compared to the prior 75 minutes of relative ease.
     
  13. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Coaches pick 21 players, with an extra GK on standby. Which is why I keep looking at the amount of time Knaak and Gwinn are being given, and wonder why this is happening when it should be obvious by now that Knaak simply isn't needed, while Gwinn's role as a squad player shouldn't really ever see her starting ahead of a better player/team co captain Huth.

    See... Hegering's late selection meant she had to be tested, and did enough to potentially suggest there's a decent chance Demann may have a un-winnable battle to be in the WC squad. But if Bremer is officially back, that HAS to be the end for Knaak now, knowing Däbritz is over 100% guaranteed to be coming back, no?

    Knaak, Lattwein, both out. Demann fighting Hegering for a defensive role. With Oberdorf in the list of last spot hopefuls like Maier, Laudehr, Lohmann, Peter, Bühl, Pawollek...

    Which isn't too bad for a player like Knaak during a WC cycle, when you also consider how Petermann, Kemme, Siems, Fellhauer, Rolser, Kayikci, would have been very strong contenders for the wnt if it wasn't for them suffering long injury.
     
  14. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    don't mention Peter is still in the running as Thomsen might get a heart attack, lol, but I still see MVT experimenting with the newer players in today's game. I don't see the 3 back as permanent fixture. I'm not sure either if Hegering was put under enough pressure to get herself starter spot. Even today, Japan are missing their best fwds in Momiki & Iwabuchi.

    Like I've said, MTV is still looking for potential/natural goal scorers instead of just getting it in unlikely places(like Hendrich & Dallmann,) otherwise were 0-4 on fast breaks after the nice set up.

    I'll see the game once again on a delay basis
     
  15. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Hi, guys: anyone has a streaming feed for Germany-Japan? I can't seem to find any, so far!
     
  16. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
  17. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Lmao I watched the game now and it was still a ridiculous good game considering the coaching situation - and they "only" tied because of 2(!) blunders by Schult

    Magull was ridiculous amazing again
    Hegering really impressed again in the defense
    My biggest winners of the night

    Sure Japan had some chances but it was regardless a game where Germany perhaps should've won because they were better, but not criminal that Japan tied

    I am excited for the WC
     
  18. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #218 Batfink, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019


    And wow... I think the TV match director has attention deficit disorder, or was trying to make a YT highlight video...:confused:

    Seeing any continuity to what was happening was hard lol.
     
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  19. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Well.. as usual, I ask what did anybody within the coaching staff actually learn from any of this; with me honestly believing the German wnt has without a doubt the WORST senior level player analysis of any of the major established female football programs.

    Constantly changing team formation, without the true tactical discipline to produce cohesive teams. Selecting unnecessarily unbalanced squads, forcing too many players into roles they'll never really succeed.

    These are now systemic problems, outside of the identity of any one head coach, that continue to slow down, or halt, the potential future success of a wnt program that's somehow STILL searching for some form of identity post the Birgit Prinz era...:confused:
     
  20. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Not entirely true though.... as MVT's weird insistence on not providing the team a genuinely stable DM platform in this match, versus a intelligent/talented opposing mid-field, created the perfect scenario for both Japan's goals; within a game Germany also wasted far too many clear chances to ever complain about the final result...:whistling:

    See, I no longer waste time questioning the suspect role of Schult anymore, as she never gets reprimanded for any of the various major errors she produces in games, that will directly lead to highly unnecessary goals being conceded by her teams.

    But in the match vs Japan, I saw Germany's continued ignorance for the importance of the DM role create a constant dilemma for Schult and her CB's, in the simple objectives of attempting to pass the ball out of defense.

    Creating the scenario where Schult would receive possession of the ball at her feet, see both of her CB's split without a consistent DM presence centrally, creating needless moments panic/anxiety for them not having a clear or obvious passing option to target.

    And you know this is a genuine problem, as it's previously been exploited by Italy and Spain, almost seeing Germany lose a two goal lead once MVT needlessly removed her teams only DM presence versus Sweden too.
     
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  21. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Yes... again Germany best player. But wow... I think this team currently has a real concern if their best attackers are going to be all be so bad in front of goal lol; with Magull a real offender in this match for not being more clinical with her shooting.

    Good in the 1st half, she had absolutely NO DISCIPLINE as a CM in the 2nd half. Constantly charging forward (past Magull) without any acknowledgement for the necessary responsibility towards her CB's.

    Germany could have easily conceded a 3rd goal on another day, facing a more potent counter attacking force. With this being a really dumb scenario to witness, knowing how strong Hegering actually looked versus Sweden sitting as a Libero....:confused:

    If you can't finish, you deserve nothing in football. And for all of Germany's clear chances versus an experimental Japanese team, they couldn't beat an excellent shot stopping Hirao, and were actually lucky in the end to find the scrappy goal that secured them a draw.

    Japan took the two chances Germany's own tactical incompetence afforded them. And that's not due to luck, when you see the exact same scenario happen twice in the same match lol.
     
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  22. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #222 Batfink, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    With Schweers' surprise ability to convert towards a CB role, the Hegering vs Demann debate is increasingly looking like a losing battle for Demann now. But with MVT clearly needing another credible RB option, the Knaak situation is becoming a bigger problem every time she's selected and plays

    As Knaak's place could be better used to address the teams lack of depth at RB, finally freeing space for Dallmann, Däbritz, Schüller (players with significantly better end product) to potentially take over the left AM roles for the team.

    Not seeing either Schüller, or Simon, during both matches is pretty unacceptable for me too. With the way MVT allowed Oberdorf to be wasted in a DM role she doesn't really know, very similar to the horrible use of Marozsan under Neid and Jones; not understanding the positional relevance of Oberdorf's impressive 7 goals in 12 games making her Essen's 2nd top goal scorer this season...:confused:
     
  23. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I agree with batfink(though probably for different reasons) but this time it looked more like shades of Stefi Jones(as well as the ghost of Neid returns!).

    while Schult screwed, why would the defenders back pass to her, then seemingly disappear?(as she had know one to re pass it to). There was no need to run off or up field since Japan's defense was all ready set up. And just wait until other teams start using strong high presses(EN, FR, US, AU, Ca)

    on offense: to be sure, some nice short passes/give n go's, there were no fast breaks this time(though partly cuz Japan didn't play as high as Sweden)

    and guessing I'm the only one that's not impressed with the Maro/Popp duo, accomplishing 1 goal in 180 minutes of play,reminds me of Jones dying days of having faith them as well.

    Maro's got to go(as starter), Popp is a bit different, she's GE's most physical(but consider that Japan managed to out muscle GE anyways, what would it matter?). My pick for starting lineup now would be

    GK..........................Frohms

    Hendrich........Doorsoun.........Elsig.......Gwinn

    ...............................Leupolz

    Huth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Dabritx.........Magull,,,,,,,,Shweers

    ..............................Schuller

    only way Popp should start if go with two fwds. I would switch back to Horst's style of moving the ball swiftly up field via both far sides(then the centered play of yesterday. Horst more tha anybody was able to get those clutch performances out of players so needed to score goals/win than any of the 3 of the coaches that GE has this decade
     
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  24. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Although Schult made of course genuine mistakes, and I don't think Japan would have managed to score otherwise, I quite agree with Batfink here that she was put in a scenario where these mistakes were just waiting to happen.

    I had made a post on the Nadeshiko Japan's thread in the first minutes of the game, where I had stated that in my opinion Schult was playing too high, as a sort of "additional CB", with her team-mates recurring much too often to backpass to her even in situations of half-pressure by Japanese FWs and that I had the feeling that Japan could have exploited that. In general, I had the feeling that there was too much space between Schult and their DFs when those passes were happening and this was opening up to all sort of risks. The timing of my remark was no suspect, since we were still quite far from the moment of first goal.

    In fact, if the first goal was quite gratuitous, the second one was different, because it came from a conscius choice by Japanese offense-line of putting pressure on Schult. If you rewatch the beginning of the action, Yokoyama initally feigned casually trotting towards Schult without much convinction, then she suddenly accelerated pointing right towards her and this led Schult to panic, but her defenders didn't help her much since they kept being quite distant both from her and from each other and didn't find anything better to do than recurring to back-pass again, until the GK ended handing the ball to Nakajima.

    For sure this is not the better moment of her career for Schult (it's not the first mistake she makes both in NT and club, these days), but I dare to say that the way she's currently played in NT, giving her a central distribution-role in defense, doesn't help her at all. :coffee:
     
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  25. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The only resemblance between MVT's vision for the German wnt, and the one's witnessed with Jones, and the end of Neid's reign, is the constant poor player analysis combined with almost ignorant levels of tactical awareness/adaption.

    Beyond this key systemic issue of poor player analysis, and while still highly erratic for every game, MVT has actually seen her team playing significantly better football than any of the previous four coaches.

    You can't fast break on a opponent using a more compact methodical approach to moving up the field. Meaning Germany doing things your way, would have needed to use more individual dribbling skill at speed to break through the central areas of this Japanese team.

    And how was that supposed to happen, when MVT selected such a imbalanced team, for a group of players we all know far better suited at using quick passing sequences centrally to unlock opposing defenses..?

    I mean, even with MVT's tactical deficiencies, Germany still created A LOT of clear chances vs Japan, using their positive quick short passing style, combined with accurate longer through balls.

    Meaning they STILL continued the pattern of showcasing positive things to create goal scoring chances, even if it didn't come in the format you'd prefer.
     

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