Das Martina-Upgrade: Sickle Cut Into Your Defense - Road to WWC 2019 [R]

No... I've openly stated being disappointed/unimpressed with both players. But reminded me again, when were these two ever playing together as forwards within a Jones team...?

Because this feels like you creating another false narrative here, just like a certain one about Hrubesch I'll get to addressing below lol.

 

Yeah... we've already seen this style your suggesting, and guess what. It was witnessed with your false profit Hrubesch lol, and it simply didn't work.

See, because during the 8 games played with Hrubesch as coach, the wnt's most important match was a 0-2 win vs Iceland during an important WC qualifier. While their most impressive result being a 2-3 win away to Canada, no?

And for all of the praise you trying to throw towards Hrubesch now, at no point did his teams ever look as controlled as I've seen MVT be able to make her teams appear facing a series of tougher opponents.

 

@hotjam2 This best highlighted during Hrubesch last match as head coach vs Spain, where Spain were probably unlucky not to win, creating the kinds of numerous clear chances MVT's opponents (France, Sweden, and Japan) would have dreamed of in their recent matches versus Germany.

With the Spain match also being applicable here, as it featured Popp playing up front with Petermann within a DM-less 4-4-2, and saw the mid-field completely overwhelmed and exposed versus a Spanish team using a VERY similar approach to the Japanese team MVT just faced.

So I can't agree with the narrative Hrubesch got the best from a German wnt for a decade lol. With all but Schüller being exact players you seen doing well with MVT right now; or did I miss when Däbritz, Leupolz, Doorsoun, Schweers, Magull, Huth, Gwinn, became different people..?

 

I've never been impressed with Schult, but MVT's confusing change from a previously clear approach towards passing the ball out from the back, was a direct reason behind Schult's latest high level embarrassment.

Because it should be clear to anybody watching Germany play, that it a clear directive MVT's team create a 3-4-3 when Schult has the ball at her feet, allowing the CB's to split really wide, seeing the DM move into the middle, creating the right kind of balance that avoids the exact scenario witnessed vs Japan; the one where any errant pass will/can lead to direct attempts on goal from the opposition.

But MVT not using a DM at any point, wasting a genuine DM Goeßling as a CB, just so Hegering could move into CM and continue the same problems witnessed in the 1st half, set Schult and her CB's up for failure.

So MVT has to start addressing 2 key issues... 1) The simple task of ALWAYS starting a dedicated DM 2) Establishing genuine tactical discipline. Knowing they're currently creating the types of goal scoring chances in ways they weren't with previous coaches, but simply missing the cutting edge to turn 1 and 2 goals, into 3 and 4 every match.

 

Don't be fooled with Knaak's ability to look good producing nothing lol. Her quality to assist and finish chances is the worst of all the current German AM's. Meaning if MVT serious about this team succeeding at a WC, she drops Knaak and Lattwein, and brings in another RB to improve the overall balance of the squad.

Popp and Marozsan wasted way too many chances versus Sweden and Japan too. But the fact the two still manage to create and squander so much tells me there's probably more to come from the attack as a whole, meaning I'd wait before proclaiming them a non factor.

 

I think we have to be more positive here about Martina's games where she's delivered two wins and a tie against three top 10 teams in the world - so I feel like what you're at the end of the day most pointing out is the amateurish behaviour from the DFB towards their women's program giving Martina so little time with her team before the WC

Sure, I get the fact that you're sceptical of her tactics and player elections and positionings but Martina has herself stated that her goal before the WC was to get a picture of all players and this is where I expect her to settle with some core players for the WC and let them play together there which I think could work well - if she doesn't do that then oh dear oh dear

So I think you're right when you say that this team lacks a real face and identity at the moment, but at the end of the day, I really don't think it's Martina's fault because it would be genuinely stupid if she didn't get a picture of all players in action - and she only has/had a handful of games to do that so I think the blame's more on DFB

But yeah, I get your point and I do understand and agree to a certain with you, Batfink, but the potential this team's got to advance pretty far in the WC is bigger than you believe

 

Like you, I also maintain MVT's current version of the German wnt one filled with better football, and far more positive potential, than anything witnessed with Neid (last five years), Jones, or Hubrech.

But yes, the "amateurish behaviour" of the wnt's player analysis, seems to come from the evolution of a club scene probably progressing at a faster pace than the long standing wnt coaches can keep up.

Resulting in a persistently poor level of player analysis for an even bigger to run wnt program, that's still being run by people thinking the women's game in Germany the same state it was 15 years ago lol.

 

You look back at some of the surface level desire of the DFB to update the wnt program, and then see how nothing but the head coaching role actually changed lol.

And then you watch the matches vs France, Sweden, Japan, and notice the EXACT same problems that were never fixed under Neid, are STILL many of the same issues in front of MVT right now lol.

Suggesting, whoever was doing the national player analysis for the wnt back in Neid's time, is still having far too much say in whats happening now.

 

I'd like to agree with you on your constantly positive attitude for this team, but I still see way too many unnecessary and persistent issues to believe so early into MVT's reign, this team truly capable of accomplishing anything close to it's full potential.

Because I think most followers of the German wnt have no issue with seeing changes for friendly matches, but will take major issue with nonsense like watching another talented AM (Oberdorf) wasted in a DM role, or seeing the match end with a back 4 featuring Huth, Goeßling, Gwinn...

I mean, how can you watch your team collapse for 45 mins vs Italy, 90 mins vs Spain, 15 mins vs Sweden, and 90 mins vs Japan, and not understand it's directly linked to your teams not having Leupolz playing in a DM, aka your team not having a dedicated DM presence...?

 

@hotjam2 They way MVT has this team always trying to pass the ball through various opponents attempts to apply pressure to her defense, she should ALWAYS want to see a dedicated DM allowing the CB's to maintain a back three posture in some form.

Be it Leupolz sitting in front of 2 CB's, or Hegering being used as a libero again, the ability of this team to outmaneuver opponents trying to pressure their defense, will be a massive advantage for Germany's potential to retain a compact structure, and still score goals.

This being very important for a team featuring Germany's type of player. As the program spent over a decade creating individuals who function best within quick combination play, with them clearly producing their best periods of football right now using this exact compact, quick tempo, one and two touch style of football.

 

@hotjam2 This discussion on formation/tactics feeding into concepts concerning the importance of good player analysis. Knowing how poor Germany's various wnt's have all appeared during a time period of the national program actually containing more depth in overall talent, but clearly less coaches to cope with the extra demands this places on them.

Highlighted best with a scenario where modern wnt programs with far less options to pick from, will now see their wnt's functioning at a far higher level of efficiency than a larger/better internally supported German wnt program, all because of this inability of the German wnt program to modernize it's infrastructure.

With the idea of modernizing it's wnt program something the DFB had been speculating doing between the time period of Neid departing and Jones failing. But instead of following through with this, all that happened was the wnt doubling down on it's past coaching infrastructure.

Leading to the seniors currently being on their 3rd coach, Ballweg returning to oversee junior and senior teams, and a ridiculous situation where Meinert would end up taking control of the U-19 and the U-20 teams during their Euro and WC tournaments being mere days apart from each other...

 

And how does this benefit anybody trying to improve the analysis of it's top international level players, when the system doesn't even have enough coaches communicating with each other to establish a unified philosophy/style of play across all age groups..?

No longer being a time period where all the mature national team talent will play for one club, and the young talents emerge in one or two others, seeing each of Germany's age group wnt's randomly using different formations and styles of play, attempting to maintain success too.

I'm watching a 17yo Oberdorf make her senior debut as a DM, having no prior history of ever being a DM. Even though she's sitting on 7 goals in 12 games for Essen during her first season in top level club football...

This only being able to happen within a system that couldn't even identify her offensively talented peers Marozsan, or Däbritz, not DM's either lol.

 

Looking at performance ratings, Germany should feel reasonably confident about making a run for the World Cup, now that Steffi Jones is gone. Germany's performance rating in the last year since Jones stepped down is 2201. Compare that with the year-plus performance ratings of other teams since January 2018 and their official FIFA ratings:

France 2086 (official rating 2043)
USA 2084 (2101)
England 2009 (2049)
Spain (!!!) 1995 (1913)
Japan 1989 (1991)

How bad was Steffi Jones? While Jones was coach, Germany's estimated performance rating was 1960 - a full 240 points below their performance since she left and in the current range of teams like Netherlands (1967), Sweden (1962) and Brazil (1944)

 

thanks for acknowledging that coaching makes a difference. Germany's coaching is supremely interesting, but often heavy handed at times. That's why i kninda liked interim coach, Horst, the most. he kept it simpler, which let the players take charge of the game more. The jury is still out on MVT; Nice victory over France/well played defensively, but then these last two, where GK Schult's two flubs vs Japan was nearly duplicated vs Sweden as well Also, sending all her defenders upfront in the later stages of the J game(like Hendrich & Goessling) while making usual attacking player like Gwinn the last defender, reminds me of shades of Jorgie in Russia! These two last games were experimental, but you can bet every opposing central striker from now on will shadow Schult like a hawk!

Not sure by your moniker if your Australian, but this is one team that looks completely different too after they un-summarily fired Staj. At least with Staj, who pounced Jill Ellis with her own medicine, an extreme high press, when he won the ToN. But the new coach seems to have channeled his inner Jorgie. as he keeps sending both FB's way up front, exposing his flanks to easy counters.


btw... why is it that every coach that's beaten Ellis, has been fired by their respective NT's?(Staj, Sampson, Echaoufni, Bini, with only the new French coach left standing) makes you wonder if Jill Ellis has some kind of pull in FIFA?

 

thanks for the answer, didn't watch much woso last decade, but why do you think German hasn't been able to produce the offensive calibre type players this decade like they had last one with Prince, Muller & Garefrekers?(the later, being still the most athletic player ever produced by GE)

 

Horst did about all he could be expected to coming in after Steffi Jones and halting their decline.

It's early days for Voss-Tecklenburg of course, with only three games under her, but for the moment it's interesting that the performance rating of the team with her leading the team is virtually identical to that under Horst: roughly 2209 to roughly 2205

 

I prefer looking at the teams actual in game performances though, and going on those... I feel like MVT's producing better football than the teams witnessed during the final run of Neid's era, plus the short lived spells of Jones, and Hrubesch; but there's still some key flaws I can see that stop me from being truly confident about Germany next major tournament, so early in the latest head coaches reign.

I mean, it didn't take a genius to understand why there were potentially major problems with Jones early into her time as head coach, listening to her trying to create positive narratives after drawing 0-0 with Euro giants Hungary...

However, looking at the football on display with MVT as head coach, she seems to have the right ideas right now, but is just struggling with the same issues previous coaches have had to deal with. Those being positive in game tactical adjustments, and better player analysis.

Meaning I can see this German WC team regaining a more positively defensively compact shape again, for an improved ability to intelligently outmaneuver opponents through the mid-field, helping create a more threatening attack.

But all it takes is removing one player from this team right now, and it instantly reverts back to being a very Jones era level mess lol.

 

I don't think there's EVER been a better wide AM in women's football than Kerstin Garefrekes, while Prinz is a legit contender for the women's all round GOAT too...

so beyond those two, I feel like Germany's youth teams have still seen talented forwards who could have been, or could still be elite level forwards for the wnt. The issue again, is simply timing and healthy opportunities....

 

@hotjam2 I think Mittag was simply unlucky to ascend to prominence during an era Germany had so much talent within the FW roles, they could leave out league leading goal scoring talent, and still win WC's and Euro's. Plus when her time eventually came, she was still stepped over by Sasic lol.

Then comes Lotzen, but she sustains long term injury just before she had her real chance as a senior team FW. Followed by Popp becoming the highest U-20 WC scorer ever, before she would eventually end up missing potential career defining WC and Euro's with injury too.

Bremer arrives on the senior scene next with series of fantastic league and U-19/20 performances, only to feel the wrath of Neid, and be excluded from the national team for the decision to take Lyon's offer and leave the domestic league early.

And now there's Schüller, Bühl, Martinez, Stolze. All four being the nations brightest young FW's, with a senior team playing Schüller's full potential still unknown, as Bühl was likely a simple flu sickness away appearing for the pre WC senior team too.

 

Well yes I'm trying to be positive about this team whereas you seem to constantly need to criticize something all the time But that's understandable lol, but my point was just that we're seeing a very exciting and interesting team under MVT with the potential to go very far in France - and this knowing that MVT has had little time to shape her team up and hope and faith she'll be able to land on a final 11 when we get to the WC

 

@hotjam2

I know she has to announce her squad before we reach the middle of May

 

@kolabear

Steffi Jones insisting on the fact that Blässe - Peter - Henning - Kerschowski, all horrendous players, says it all about her coaching lol. She also publically blamed Gössling for her disastrous defense after the loss in the Euro's and Iceland in the WC qualifiers where she just came back from injury in the Euro's for the KO game against Iceland and played as a defensive midfielder against Iceland - yet she was blamed for the bad results lol. Well here you go and this all explains the Jones' era which was a mess and disgrace for women's football in Germany

It was so horrendously bad that I've lost my words lol

 

But is Leupolz the answer for DM? I mean I like her better as a CM rather than a DM because she's got some serious problems tracking home and defense sometimes lol which I hate to watch - not sure if she's tired or just doesn't bother?

Anyway Melanie needs to be in the starting eleven imo

 

I know I can sound rather negative about this team lol, but a lot of that comes from me seeing this program continue to struggle with the more club-centric nature of the women's game, seeing how much more efficient smaller programs have been having far less access to the kinds of resources the DFB continues to provide.

So I know this team filled with enough talent to do well in France... however, I'll need to see 2 things before I know this team is for real... 1) a clear decision made on the still erratic use of a dedicated libero/DM. 2) A final resolution on the identity of the players providing defensive/offensive width.

The needlessly unresolved libero/DM situation being exposed late in the game vs Sweden, and for the entire 90 mins vs Japan. While the lack of genuine continuity/stability in the FB and wide AM roles is just...; knowing the kinds of options Germany has access to.