Darlington Nagbe

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by xbhaskarx, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reyna never looked good without a real d-mid and someone more attack minded to complement him.

    Let Nagbe play with a real d-mid and Pulisic in front. (which will never happen because of The Spine.)
     
  2. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see how you can make such a statement at all. Nagbe averaged less than 30 minutes per appearance under JK, all as a sub, with his peak time being one 2nd half that he started and played the last 45 mins. That's simply not enough game time to say he played better with JK. Under JK he was an afterthought. Under Arena he's had a couple of games that were far more impact-full than his sub appearances under JK. But he's also had some underwhelming/meh games under Arena, but at least he's been given a real shot.
     
  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    He played in 10 games for under 300 mins for Klinsmann and 12 games for 800 to 900 minutes. For jk he came on at half time once, between 60th and 70th minute 7 times, and just before the 80th minute twice. He wasn't an after thought but a player that he was bringing along slowly, just like Pulisic. He was generally the second sub. Klinsmann wanted his players to raise their games. Pulisic did, and Nagbe didn't. JK wanted Nagbe to make it obvious that he was a better choice than a hard working bedoya. He did enough to think it was possible, but clearly obvious. Just like it isn't clearly obvious he should be starting now.

    Under Arena, he has made impacts at times but also had stretches where he doesn't. He hasn't scored or assisted in about 3 times the minutes.

    Under Klinsmann he usually left us wanting more. He came in and impacted the game. He didn't have those periods of drifting or passiveness. He had a goal and an assist.

    The game against Costa Rica reminded me of old UVA teams... Side to side, possession for possession sake. It feels like we are playing slower than we were a year ago and think that doesn't help Darlington.

    I'm sure why he be given a real shot. Players earn or take playing time from others. I guess we should sit Nagbe now to give someone else a real shot?
     
  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The team generated dangerous attacking movements. An obvious PK, when Waston tripped Altidore, was not called. Pulisic blew several opportunities. A few passes were misplaced.

    None of those problems was Nagbe-related.

    And Jermaine Jones ain't coming back.

    Again, Arena needs to change the formation.
     
  5. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    And Nagbe had little to do with attacking moments. I noticed him 4 times in all of the highlights. He knocks the ball wide twice so it can be crossed, dribbles then does give and go and then gets stripped, and finally mishits a volley wide of the 6 yard box. On the play that ends with Pulisic badly mishitting, Nagbe takes an unnecessary touch that slows the movement of the ball.

    Not sure why you keep bringing up Pulisic. By just watching the highlights, it is clear that even though Pulisic had a poor game by his standards, he made a much bigger impact than Nagbe and most of the rest of the team. Nagbe was often trailing the play whether going forward or defending. The obvious PK doesn't happen if CP doesn't run at his man and get a cross near him. CP's shot and deflection led to Navas having to make a world class save.

    He did rack up a bunch of passes just hitting it back and forth with Bradley. The center of the field was poor. Too slow and doing too little to probe the defense. As I said before, some of that is on Arena, but some is also on MB and DN.

     
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I actually noticed Nagbe quite a bit in the attacking movements. His passes into
    the final third partially demonstrated his involvement there.

    Pulisic is the star attacker on the team and was involved in a number of chances, which he blew. As an attacking player in match against a team set to defend, he should have a bigger salient impact than the central mids.

    If the center mids were not doing their jobs then those dangerous attacking
    movements would not have been created.
     
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  7. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By what measure was the midfield poor?

    And no, he did not play wide left.
     
  8. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This armchair psychology everybody keeps spouting where every player that isn't playing in a top ten league just doesn't "want it enough" is probably the worst thing to come out the Klinsmann era. Klinsmann thought Donovan didn't score on Oli Kahn because he didn't "beweeeeeve" in himself enough, but that is silly magical thinking. Donovan didn't score on Oli Kahn because Donovan was 20 and Kahn is one of the best GKs of all time who stopped much better players. Klinsmann also put his hopes of WC success in Chris Wondolowski, who I've personally witness savage a phone book with his teeth, and look how that worked out? This is football, not Dragonball Z. Being an armchair therapist has become more important than actually learning to analyze the game.

    Nagbe has very specific skills that make him effective in specific roles. He doesn't have the skills that translate to the role people think he should be effective in (attacking mid, apparently). This is not a matter of mentality.
     
  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Measure? Everything in this game isn't measured.

    The spacing was off quite often. The center mids were often well behind the play... did a poor job of supporting the forwards and the wide mids, especially Pulisic. They often became disconnected, especially when Bradley dropped way back. They moved the ball too slowly, and Nagbe especially took an extra touch allowing defenders to close options down.

    They were slow tracking back and closing down space in midfield. It gave CR's mids time to pick out Urena.

    As far as the Honduras game, he was on the left in a 4231... can someone help me out with a pic of Nagbe's chalkboard? Every one of his actions is on the left side of the field and most of them are in the left third of the field with many on the touchline.

    https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2017-09-05-honduras-vs-us-mens-national-team/boxscore

    He absolutely has the physical and technical skills to play an amid. If it isn't mentality what is it?

    Apparently he has a limited set of specific skills and needs to be put into a specific role. The problem is that Bradley has the same issue. It's hard to hide both players weaknesses when pairing two guys in the middle of the field that need to play specific roles.
     
  10. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    You seem to be conflating of number of thoughts and have gotten yourself all twisted up again. Also, your analysis leaves a little wanting as it has nothing to with the specific play but rather generalities about the players involved.
    • I can't think of any sport where the coach wouldn't want there players to work hard day in and day out to improve their games and give everything they have every minute they are on the field.
    • Playing in a top league doesn't necessarily imply they don't want it enough, but they are now challenged to have the commitment and discipline to push themselves with less competition. Even the mentally toughest can become complacent for small periods when not challenged. If I had ambition of being a top player, I'm not sure why I'd play in league that has ever created one.
    • Donovan didn't score on Kahn because he took a poor first touch allowing Kahn to close the angle and Donovan just hit it at him. I'm not sure Donovan's confidence was in the situation just like you don't. Klinsmann may have been wrong but his opinion was well within the realm of possibility.
    • Wondowlowski's play has nothing to do with other. They both didn't execute and quite frankly I'd much prefer Donovan's opportunity than wondowloski's.
     
  11. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you sure of what Bradley / Nagbe's roles were? Neither were playing as ball-winners. It was a midfield built to out-possess CR and it overwhelmingly did, even before the goal. On offense, Nagbe was involved in at least two excellent chances, one that Pulisic inexplicably shot out of bounds; Pulisic and FJ were the primary playmakers in this match.

    On defense, a bad pass from Cameron and FJ losing his header in a bad spot lead to goals. When you give up possession cheaply in your own half, you can get scored on. You can be mad at Bruce for not playing a true ball-winner like Dax McCarty and just sticking him on Ruiz no matter what, but that's planning for bonehead mistakes from guys who really should be accustomed to better. Either way, that ain't on Nagbe.

    I disagree. He doesn't have the ability to see and make passes much faster than everyone else. Look at a player like Lee Nguyen; his movement, vision is all very different from Nagbe. This is not a matter of Nagbe just really wanting it and tearing a phonebook; they are different players with different types of brains. They are both very technical, but in different ways.

    Most players in the world have a limited set of specific skills and need to be put into a specific role; CR7 can't hold the ball like Xavi, Xavi can't pass like Pirlo, Pirlo can't dribble like Messi. That's not a critique. An unsophisticated analysis compares Nagbe to some ideal instead of evaluating him within his skillset and the role he's asked to play.
     
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  12. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, no. That wasn't analysis: I'm just calling the "mentality" argument nonsense in general.
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Saying why someone doesn't score sounds like analysis to me.

    Donovan didn't score on Oli Kahn because Donovan was 20 and Kahn is one of the best GKs of all time who stopped much better players.
     
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  14. richmondlaw

    richmondlaw Member

    Jun 13, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    again I don't see what Nagbe contributed tonight. He wasn't involved in any of the goals, he didn't defend, and he had several bad passes.
     
  15. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    2nd assist on Jozy's first goal.
     
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  16. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    I seem to remember him being "The" standout player for a stretch after Arena took over. Poor stretch of form i suppose.
     
  17. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania

     
  18. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    He had a decent case for a spot on the team, but he's certainly not good enough that anyone needs to beg him to be a part of things.
     
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  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Agreed. He was looking like an elite MLS player who deserved a strong look. Can’t blame Berhalter for trying.
     
  20. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wasn't too keen on the guy. He had many average games then he would make a spectacular play and then go back to his average style for another few games.
     
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  21. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As far as I am concerned the mods could just close this thread. This is the US Men's section and he clearly aint one of them anymore.
     
  22. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    eh...arriola declined his latest callup....many of the dual-nats do as well....

    I'm definitely not as sympathetic as before this info came out....but at the end of the day....I wouldn't eliminate him from consideration, either (just as GB hasn't)...

    on talent and form, he is better than many of those getting callups....so he will stay in the mix.......
     
  23. felloveranddidanadu

    Plymouth Argyle
    Dec 12, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    San Jose Frogs
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Giving him (and others) the benefit of the doubt, I can see why you'd want to decline a call-up in the middle of your season where you'd miss potentially crucial game(s) and get out of your rhythm. It's a shame as I think he's a great player, but probably the same nagging voice that made him decline this latest call-up is the same that told him to avoid Europe, to avoid the ruthlessness and cut-throat nature of the highest levels of the game. Give me his skills and Dempsey's mentality and we have a real player.
     
  24. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What a busy guy he must be.

    Perhaps he’s renovating his lawn. It is that time of year after all.
     
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  25. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He turned down multiple call ups across several years and two national team coaches. Then, if the reporter's sources were accurate, Nagbe basically lied about his current situation with the national team.
     

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