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Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by xbhaskarx, Jan 11, 2011.
Both of whom are members of the commonwealth.
Oh and who?
The commonwealth doesn't grant British work permission.
You don't say.
However - It can be slightly easier to get a work permit for the UK for citizens of the commonwealth - Especially if you have a British Grandparent - Which given that both countries only got their independence around 50 years ago is entirely possible.
Also - Who were the U-17's granted work permits?
If anyone has any US Immigration officials who owe them a favor, I strongly recommend you use it to get Nagbe US citizenship. I don't want to wait til March to watch him play again.
After Agudelo's fiasco I think it's fair to say that the Home Office have decided to clamp down on imports and that it's very unlikely that Nagbe would go if Agudelo hasn't.
Well, Nagbe's a lot better than Agudelo, and I'd hope that the appeals committee would be able to see that. He doesn't have the caps, but he'd have the argument that he would have been getting them had he been a citizen, and I'm sure Jurgen would argue his case since he knows Porter. I still stand by my statement that I'd prefer he doesn't go to England.
It's not the Home Office. The FA has been making noise about clamping down on foreign players and it looks like they're serious
A LOT better? A lot healthier maybe, but a lot better. Agudelo, when healthy, has produced. And he is a LOT younger than Nagbe, to use your verbage (about 2 and a half years). And yes, that does indeed matter. Lots of this really comes down to the dreaded word "potential."
Yes, IMO, a lot better. Agudelo has the potential to be a good player at the PL level. Nagbe (again, IMO), is already there and would start for about 15 of the 20 PL teams. His ceiling is a lot higher than a good PL player. I think that if Nagbe were to play for the US today, he'd be the third best player on the team, after Bradley and Donovan.
His technical ability is at or above the level of everyone else on the team today. His athleticism is at the level of Donovan in his prime. But what really sets Nagbe apart from other players is his tactical level. He gets it like very few players in our program do. Certainly at a higher level than most other players we still use the word "potential" for, such as Agudelo.
And yes, I'm aware that not everyone rates him as highly as I do, but people in the game who are around him a lot tend to. Porter said something along the lines of "Darlington could fit in on any team in the world, that's the kind of player he is." He also said he thinks that he'll be the most talented player the US has ever had by the time he retires.
I love Nagbe's potential, but he is far from there. As I've said many times, he simply isn't aggressive enough. In that area of killer instinct, Agudelo is miles ahead. And if you don't believe that criticism, just listen to Nagbe's coaches. Both of them have continuously said that he has the ability to take over games and is too passive. Bottom line ..... Nagbe 7276 minutes, 17 goals, 8 assists. Agudelo 4350 minutes, 18 goals, 7 assists. 2 players who play similiarly, with nearly identical scoring numbers, but Agudelo doing it in only about 60% of the minutes. And if Agudelo could stay fit, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. He's simply produced more, with no better talent around him than Nagbe, and at a younger age. And I'm a HUGE fan of Nagbe's potential.
I'm not trying to disparage Nagbe here. I'm simply bringing this up to point out that flippantly discarding Agudelo as an example of what might happen in a work permit by concluding that Nagbe is so much better, is not reasonably based on factual scoring records. And it doesn't help that he is even holder than Juan. Nagbe would run into the same sort of problems based on what the decision makers are looking at.
Also, I believe Nagbe was highly recognized for his achievements in college which adds some documentary evidence to the pile.
There's something to the argument that Nagbe could be more aggressive- but your argument leaves out important factors.
1. Nagbe is not a forward- he is a true CAM- and is more than serviceable out wide. Had Porter played him in the middle he would have scored and assisted on more goals this year.
2. Nagbe unbalances defenses. His ability to penetrate off the dribble creates instability in defenses and opens up opportunities for other players. This ability is markedly missing from the U.S. lineup. With the decline of Donovan it will become an even greater problem in the future.
Juan is a good player, but he does not have the potential to be a game-changer at the international level the way that Nagbe does.
Agudelo already has a good per-minute goal creation record at international level. More importantly he's a center forward. Nagbe ain't a center forward. What's with this run of inappropriate comparisons?
I can't think of a single player in our program (past or present) that has the touch, ball control, dribbling and vision that Nagbe has. His biggest flaw is the fact that he isn't aggressive enough which leads him to disappearing from games at times. He tries too often to get everyone in the game instead of doing what his talent will allow him to do which dominate the play and tempo of the match. It's funny because most young players you have to teach them to be less selfish, I'd imagine that Porter is going to work really hard this off season to make Nagbe more selfish.
Such a shame that he wont be in Brazil.
Nagbe and Agudelo are completely different players with different roles. They can't be compared.
Must you rain on the parade? BS would be a pretty dull place without inapt comparisons.
Everyone else, please carry on as usual ...
What is Nagbe's contract situation?
How many years left?
I agree with what you wrote before this. I would change this part to say "they can't be compared statistically". Two players that play different positions can be compared very successfully by the eye test. And this is where Nagbe blows Agudelo out of the water, for the reasons you already mentioned in your post.
Edit: Also, regarding him needing to become more selfish, I know his coaches have said that, and I get why they do, but I'm not sure I agree from the perspective I'm looking at it from, which is as a national team fan. For a team like Portland, where Nagbe is the star, and very few of the players on the field are close to his level, I agree he could do more if he chose to be selfish. But at the same time, I'm glad that's not an automatic part of his game, because it won't work once he gets to an elite club. And if he gets good enough to be selfish there, it's always easier to learn to look for your own opportunities after years of creating good habits than to trying to learn those good habits after years of perpetuating bad ones
Agudelo already has good record with the National Team. Be realistic. Let Nagbe get citizenship.
1. No. Nagbe is not physical enough and he wants space to get the most out of his game.
2. Ok, but he needs to go abroad because he is not the natural Donovan is. He really needs to learn the game.
Just noticed that Gus Poyet, Sunderland manager, and Joe Nagbe (captain of Nice, Darlington's dad) are the same age. I wonder if they ever played against each other. Probably not. In any case, Sunderland would be a great place for Nagbe. I hope they put a bid in for Nagbe in the transfer window. One thing we know is that they are looking at relegation if they dont add something to the mix.
Would rather see him go to Nice than Sunderland, if Europe is an option for him at this time.
The guy is plenty physical. I've watched players hack and bounce off him all season- he is one of the most fouled players in MLS. Plus, he's not a moaner and just gets on with it- which is a huge positive in the modern game and intimates a good attitude. As for needing space, he is fantastic at beating players in tight spaces that try to close him down. It's like we're not talking about the same player.
Almost any U.S. player compared to Donovan in the tactical sense is going to come up short.
More like Sunderland could really use Nagbe. But then again, no good reason for him to pick the EPL over another top 5 league.
Generally Portland pushes Wallace wide left and lets Nagbe and Valeri roam around to find the game.
If eligible I would instantly insert Nagbe into our starting lineup. He is both significantly faster, more skilled, and smarter on the ball than Bedoya and Zusi. That calculation is not based on an Adu-like ability to turn a game but qualities he brings for 90 minutes; he is great playing out of pressure, he is both quick and fast from the first kick to the last, and he makes the right decisions more often than many of our starters.
Agudelo made huge strides in becoming a player who contributes to his team for 90 minutes. His aerial game took a huge leap forward and jumped ahead of where Jozy was at the same age. He's as technically adept as Nagbe but is not as circumspect or aware of his surroundings, but his more risk taking approach suits his position.
They both have game changing qualities that will translate (like Clint, Jozy, and Landon before them) but due to the positions they play and the alternatives Darlington is more likely to be able to apply his talents in a way that provides consistent additional value to our team.
The comparisons between Darlington Nagbe and Juan Agudelo are pointless. And arguing that Agudelo is a better player on account of goals per minute is like arguing that John Stockton was a better player than Karl Malone purely because he accumulated more assists ... they play different positions on the field.
Here is the line-up Portland used for most of the season. If I could draw an arrow on this line-up, I'd have Nagbe's pointing diagonally toward Ryan Johnson. He had the freedom to roam within the attacking third, and was asked to track back and defend less than his counterpart on the left, Rodney Wallace. But he still nominally lined up as an attacking midfield on the right side of the field.
Nagbe fits perfectly as an attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1. He would fit well within Klinsmann's current system, within any of the three attacking midfield spots, and would be a great attacking sub for the team based on his current level of play. His trajectory could see him become our successor to Landon Donovan, as I pointed out in an earlier post within this thread last month.
If you watch Nagbe play, you will notice how often he absorbs contact while on the ball and stays on his feet. Nagbe is surprisingly compact and sturdy for a smaller guy.