D3 Division announced for 2019

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by thomas19064, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    kenntomasch repped this.
  2. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Yeah, it will be interesting to see what happens. I think a very regional D3 is likely to start. The only way the MLS2 teams would switch is if there are a lot of non-MLS2 teams in this new D3 league. It seems unlikely to start off that way.

    And if all the MLS2 teams move down then the USL loses one of its big advantages right now: the density of teams in particular areas.

    I think the USL should start off with a 8 or 10 team D3 league in the East/Midwest. Keep the teams close together and don't disrupt what the USL has set up right now. If a couple of the MLS2 teams want to join that, then fine. If that league grows then maybe you could expand it later into a nation-wide league which would be more attractive to the MLS2 teams.
     
  3. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    #3 thomas19064, Mar 30, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
    This is a useless exercise I know, but I've been trying to figure out potential scenarios....
    3 - 7 team divisions.. play the other 6 teams 4 times, other divisions played only during playoffs.... factoring in some expansion rumors could maybe work..... (also assuming Ottawa leaves for CPL)

    D2
    Cincinnati
    Louisville
    Nashville
    Rochester
    St. Louis
    Tampa Bay
    Colorado Springs
    OKC
    Tulsa
    Orange County
    Phoenix
    Reno
    RGV
    Sacramento
    San Antonio
    Boise? (Timbers operated)
    Austin? is this dead?


    D3 East

    Pittsburgh
    Harrisburg
    Red Bulls II
    Toronto II
    FC Montreal (return?)
    Bethlehem
    Long Island? (NYCFC operated)

    D3 Central/South (this one is a stretch)
    Charlotte
    Swope Park
    Dallas 2
    DC II

    Richmond
    Charleston
    Orlando B

    D3 West
    Galaxy II
    Portland 2
    Monarchs
    Seattle 2
    Fresno
    Tucson

    Vancouver 2




    If they could fill out two separate South and a Central divisions they'd be in good shape with 4 regional D3 Divisions...I think we may see a push for MLS teams to at least take up player operations for more teams to help them expand faster for this division too.... could be a lot of new teams in the next two years.
     
  4. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    1. Austin is pretty much dead. They don't have anywhere to play.
    2. A 16 teams USL might work but it is pretty far-flung league.
    3. You are dropping Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Charlotte, Richmond, and Charleston to D3? That seems unlikely.
    4. Your D3 West is almost all MLS2 teams. MLS said that one of the reasons they got rid of the Reserve League and went the USL route is so that their players wouldn't just be playing against other reserve players. This defeats that purpose.

    We shall see but this type of scenario seems unlikely to me.
     
  5. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    I'm just trying to understand how this could possibly work...I agree with everything you said except point number 2... I think it's feasible all 4 of those teams could drop down. Harrisburg most definitely, and the other three while not as much of a lock, certainly possible. Charlotte and Pitt both fall short of the D2 stadium requirements, and I think them a long with Richmond could be enticed to stick with a more regional schedule than opting to play in a "far-flung" league as you called out. This is the Riverhounds first year in D2 since 2003... they played in the old USL2.
     
  6. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    The SI article says "It’s believed that there are no current independent USL teams eyeing a move to D3." That may or may not be true but those teams signed on to be D2 for at least the present.

    I think the current USL teams want to be in D2. Can they stay there? We shall see. I think this new D3 is more likely to be an expansion/promotion from PDL league rather than moving the existing teams around. But I've been wrong before.
     
  7. CenCalFooty

    CenCalFooty Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Fresno
    Club:
    Fresno Fuego
    This is exciting news for me in Fresno. If travel isnt too crazy I can see the Fuego making this work.
     
  8. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    While I agree it is most likely going to be made up of expansion and PDL teams, I could also see it as a place where current USL D2 clubs that need waivers could go while they get themselves in order. Of course, USSF said they wanted that done by next season, but I wonder if USL could use the upcoming D3 league as a reason to allow the teams that require waivers to continue in D2?
     
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  9. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    The USL is confirming the new league:

    http://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/775757?referrer_id=2333971

    The article goes on to say that they have been working on this for 18 months and that they are already in discussions "with numerous potential owners who have extensive experience in MiLB and other professional sports leagues."

    They say details will be announced this summer.
     
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  10. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    AAA and AA markets not covered by D2 today (not that these are likely or anything, but just for the hell of it):

    AAA
    Buffalo
    Pawtucket
    Scranton
    Syracuse
    Durham
    Gwinnett
    Norfolk
    Toledo
    Iowa
    Omaha
    Memphis
    New Orleans
    Round Rock
    Fresno
    Tacoma
    Albuquerque
    El Paso
    Las Vegas

    AA
    Binghamton
    Hartford
    New Hampshire (Manchester)
    Portland (ME)
    Reading
    Trenton
    Akron
    Altoona
    Bowie
    Erie
    Birmingham
    Chattanooga
    Jackson (TN)
    Montgomery
    Tennessee (Kodak)
    Biloxi
    Mississippi (Pearl)
    Mobile
    Pensacola
    Arkansas (Little Rock)
    NW Arkansas (Springdale)
    Springfield (MO)
    Corpus Christi
    Frisco
    Midland


    I'm not diving into Single A.
     
  11. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    Do you have any scarf designs yet?
     
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  12. CFL-fan

    CFL-fan Member

    May 1, 2006
    Maryland
    Well they have a nice stadium in Frisco, TX. It's the home of FC Dallas.
     
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  13. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    ha - whoops.

    either way I get the vibe from the USL release that there will be some rapid expansion announcements for this league... wasn't entirely expecting that.
     
  14. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    scarfs, kits, supporter group names, regional rivals and old NASL team names that will bring the fans.
     
  15. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Somerville, MA
    Country:
    United States
    If there are really a lot of new ownership groups ready to move into the league with a solid plan, I'm thrilled.

    I just hope they don't screw up a good thing and burden a lot of clubs with unnecessary travel costs. They just got out of the woods by regionalizing the schedule, which helps create a virtuous cycle of operational cost savings, more expansion, more savings with even more relatively local games, etc.

    They have to be hoping that the NASL collapses or they can get more defections. Much of the NASL would fit into the USL's geography quite nicely.

    In the last four seasons, they have added 13 new teams (including TB, Ottawa, and essentially San Antonio from the NASL). During this time they haven't added more than five clubs in one season (and that includes the ORL ---> LOU swap). During that time exactly zero clubs have stepped up from the PDL or NPSL.

    So, be careful USL, and don't get greedy.
     
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  16. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member

    Aug 17, 2014
    Virginia Beach
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Country:
    United States
    From the sound of the article it seems like USL has been planning the move up to D2 and then split off their own D3 for a while lowkey. By the time they launch USL2 it would have been in the works for 42 months. That is plenty of time to start-up new teams especially if they have been talking to minor league baseball owners.
     
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  17. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    People seem to have forgotten that:

    ( a ) USL ran tandem D2 and D3 leagues from 1997 (1996 if you count the provisional D2 status of the Select League) to 2009, so this ain't some new thing (though NuRock obviously did not do it, but they have run multiple leagues concurrently).

    ( b ) USL ain't made a whole lot of missteps lately. They've come from the position where, in 2010, they had a risky-dink D3 league and some plans to reorganize it while the NASL was making all the noise out of the gate to a point where they clearly have their act together in most things. Which is why...

    ( c ) I reckon if YOU can figure out this D3 league needs to go regional at startup, THEY sure as hell can figure that out.

    Lastly, more context and to head off the people who have gone 0-to-60 on this in other places (not in this thread), USL had a promotion codicil on its books for years that let the D3 champ get promoted to D2 and it almost never was taken advantage of. (Albuquerque did it, and we did it in Indiana despite NOT winning the league, which is a whole 'nother story.) While the landscape has changed a bit since then, I would not necessarily think this automatically means pro/rel between the divisions. The reasons it is unlikely to work at the D2 to D1 level still hold here.

    (Also, I believe I had this one. I said they were going to have to do something to fill the void and deal with the MLS 2 teams.)
     
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  18. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    And why do you figure that is?

    [ ] The leap from amateur to pro is a big one.
    [ ] They had a good idea the D2 application was coming and THAT would be too big a leap.
    [ ] They have no intention - despite what some people see as sufficient attendance numbers for amateurs - to add to their financial burden.
    [ ] All of the above.
     
  19. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    Just waiting for the hissy fits when Fresno isn't the Fuego, Des Moines isn't the Menace and Michigan isn't the Bucks.
     
  20. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    While it appears they have a group wanting to put a pro team in Fresno, which could go either way, they'd be REALLY dumb to do anything like that in Des Moines. The Menace is one of the longest-running teams in the country.
     
  21. CenCalFooty

    CenCalFooty Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    Fresno
    Club:
    Fresno Fuego
    No hissy fits. will be pretty upset but life goes on. We have been building something with the Fuego so I see no need to start over.
     
  22. flyfresno

    flyfresno New Member

    Fresno Fuego
    Guatemala
    Apr 2, 2017
    I think the Fuego leadership said it best the other day: we've seen issues divide cities/fans/supporters all around the country, and we can't and won't let that happen in Fresno. They are 100% on board with supporting professional soccer in Fresno, and the hope would be that we as a community support out home city and the team(s) that represent us. The best thing we can do right now is show the new ownership group that we have a community, it's mostly based downtown, and while we recognize that this won't go perfectly, we hope for some good-faith efforts on their side too to keep our city and our fans united.
     
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  23. Sting111

    Sting111 Member

    Jan 17, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I hadn't seen that this thread was created, so I responded on the general USL thread. Here are my thoughts on the matter.

    I know that the USL is going to split into a 2nd division and a 3rd division. Hasn't that been the USL's MO the past 25 years or so? Over-expand everywhere, have a league with an incredible number of teams, split the league into different divisions, and then start counting all of the teams that fold. I know that the USL has been around practically forever, but when will they stop making the same mistakes over and over? That's minor league soccer in the US!

    I did get a response that the USL is different than where it was a few years ago.

    I have just seen too many teams come and go over the years. Any league needs consistent standards and objectives from team to team. The teams with the best attendance all want to use the USL as a springboard to MLS. Other teams are set up as reserve teams. I know that the D2 and D3 split is being set up to address some of that, but where are all of these new teams going to come from? I know some PDL teams may make the move up. I just don't see the economics working for both a USL 2nd Division and a USL 3rd Division. That approach has been tried before. I just don't see it as being sustainable. I really hope that I am wrong.

    Just want to bring this discussion to the right board.
     
  24. Sting111

    Sting111 Member

    Jan 17, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Unless the USL as a league, or the USSF is able to set enforceable standards for three separate division, I remain unclear what the advantages of having these so called different divisions are. To me, they remain arbitrary and lack any recognizable purpose. Why would an investor put any resources behind this type of environment?
     
  25. coppercanuck

    coppercanuck New Member

    Mar 21, 2008
    I feel like this is a bit of a rise in the USL standards to match the D2 standards. A D3 gives teams who aren't or don't want to meet those standards a chance to stay in the systems. The 30 teams in the USL now, is a pretty good size and there are many, many PDL and NPSL sides who might be better served by being connected under the umbrella.
     

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