Inquiring minds need to know. Bottom line is there are posters who must force MLS/Liga players on the USMNT above and beyond Steffen and Adams. I do not agree.
Bah, it seems like there's a pretty clear delineation in that squad. It's the squad of the most "in form" players. Got guys like Sabbi, Castillo, Acosta, and Zardes in there. Parker, instead of Besler/Brooks, etc. It's purely form-based. Though I'd easily take out Green and put in Ramirez or Dwyer. In fact, I'd replace Zardes with either of those two. Castillo's in good form. Not sure he's necessarily worth a spot, but if he is, it's as a midfielder/winger, not a shuttler, not a fullback/wingback...
I hear you and I get caught up in looking 2-3 years down the road because now doesn't mean anything really. The best 11 for me are the ones we want to count on in 2-3 years and Parker, Zardes, Besler and most of those names will hopefully not be in the mix or we're still in deep trouble. I also struggle to put too much weight on in form MLS players. I try hard to get into that league but after hundreds of hours watching games the past year or 2 I just see pedestrian soccer with aging players. All the youth is south American or from somewhere else.
The last 18 years, MLS and MLS-senior-team-produced players have been a significant part of all of the rosters fielded by the NT in major tournaments. No amount of smirking, sniffling, euro-snobbery can alter this.
No, but the fact that the best kids are bypassing MLS, and, the best players in the pool are in Europe, will decrease those numbers drastically. If MLS wants to pat itself on the back 5-10 years from now because EPB forced his way out of SKC, or because Miazga spent a piece of his early career at NYRB, they can go ahead. The next generation of "Miazga"-like players, like Ledezma, Reyna, Soto, and Sargent, are all going to have bypassed the league.
How did EPB 'force' his way out? Miazga was one of the top defenders in MLS during his last year in the league. Ledezma, Reyna, and Soto all came from MLS academies, which are almost completely free-to-play.
This is undoubtedly true but it is also absolutely true that we will need to improve our squad to take the next step (and perhaps even to match our previous level of success). Our squad needs to be mainly comprised of major league players and MLS is far from that at his point.
I see Weah in Best 11s above and it isn't crazy anymore. He really is on the cusp. ---------Weah-------Altidore-------Pulisic --------Adams-------McKennie------Delgado Robinson------Brooks----Miazga------Yedlin We haven't seen that midfield trio yet. I would really like to see it. Adams is a ball hawk, Delgado is probably our best metronome type, and McKennie is the all around best CM. The Weah spot is certainly up for grabs. AJo is always hurt, Saief is always hurt, FabJo is past prime and has been hurt. Amon is always hurt. Sabbi might be emerging here. I'd rather play Weah with Pulisic on his better side than put Pulisic on the left and play Arriola. If you want Wood over Altidore, that is fine with me.
He left SKC to go on loan in Portugal to play for Porto II. He wanted to stay in Portugal and fight for a first team spot, but Porto and SKC couldn't agree on his transfer fee, so he languished in SKC until his contract was up, at which point Man City got him on a free. His relationship with SKC is well documented. He grew up there, played in their academy, became one of their first homegrown signings, displayed remarkable talent, most-clearly at the YNT level, and at the least MLS-starter talent at SKC. But he ended up with 3 less matches in the Portuguese 2nd division (Porto II) in a single year than he had in 5 years in MLS (17 vs. 20 IIRC). I'd say that's about all I need to say about that. If you want more, talk to @ussoccer97531 and everyone else who has contributed to the hundreds of posts about EPB over the years. Ledezma, Reyna, and Soto all came from MLS academies, of course, I know. I could've pointed out all 3 of RSL's lost prospects alone, Booth, Ledezma, and Soto. My point is that those guys left MLS training environments for a reason. And it can't always be the excuse that Europe is soooooo much better. Hannover's nothing special in terms of development, Reyna's only 15 and has an agent, and RSL itself has kept guys like Glad and Saucedo, so they've done it before. These aren't Pulisic-level talents who would be crazy to go to Philly over BvB/other European mega-clubs, because the world only produces a handful of those players every year. But they aren't chopped liver either. They are promising players that don't have obvious paths to the first team, and, worse, the lack of freedom of movement within/without MLS, which means they're more likely to be stuck in a USL side or glued to the bench, rather than sent to another MLS team or sent abroad. MLS games are a decent level, and should entice even players with Big 4 league ambitions, because MLS games at 16-20 years old is perfectly fine in terms of a player's development. And the cry is that MLS teams get nothing for them. Well, most don't play any of the young players that they do have, and since stalling in Europe leaves MLS as a backup plan, it's ironically a better bet to go abroad. Maybe, if you make coaches play 5 American-eligible players every game, all of a sudden it behooves you to play Sands, Lindsey, Carleton, and Bello more. And it should motivate you to search for the next crop, and then play them.
Goes to show playing time with the senior team isn't the be-all, end-all. Alphonso Davies went to Vancouver. Didn't hurt him any. RSL plays its young players. Why is it assumed Soto, Booth, and Ledezma would've been glued to RSL's bench? Is Booth going to start for Bayern? Players leave for the financial opportunities, either immediate or down the road. That's the way industries work. Why should soccer be any different?
I find all this boo-hooing for MLS laughable. If MLS isn't competitive for signing kids in their own country, they should do better. That is how it goes in a free market and in sports. Almost the entire situation is caused by MLS itself: 1. HG contracts are too long and far too club friendly. Josh Sargent is not signing a contract where he is making $90K/yr at age 21 and still has a year until he can move. 2. You are stuck in MLS for five years as a HG because MLS doesn't sell Americans. They are too useful to fill the bench to be sold. 3. The players that do sign HG deals are rarely played and never develop. There seems to be more playing this year, but that might be a short term consequence of expansion. 4. Many players only can sign with their local MLS team; and that team might be stacked at their position or simply not interested in developing young players. If MLS (or even USL, not sure why they can't get in on this) simply offered 16 yr olds without a EU passport a 2 year deal with a club option for 1 year, I bet many of these kids sign. If MLS starts developing and selling Americans to Europe, more will sign. If you allow the teams that do this all the best to recruit the best talent, more of the best talent will sign. Personally, I think MLS is fine with things. The top American youth talent will go overseas, but there will still be plenty of kids and college players to fill out the back end of rosters and the occasional defensive starting spot. If your Academy gets you 4 players to fill out four roster spots (maybe even a position in the 11 on the back line), the GAM savings alone will pay for the Academy.
Where does this assumption come from that all the best talent is going to Europe? I made a rough estimate of the ten best players in '00-'02. Not in any particular order (the order doesn't matter). #'s below of where they are plying their trade. '00: Garces, Richards, Lindsey, Gloster, Durkin, Carleton, Soto, Weah, Sargent, Ledezma '01: Hoffman, Araujo, Akanyirige, Booth, de la Fuente, Llanez, Stojanovic, Roberts, Duke, Reynolds '02: Las, Scally, Bello, Gray, Alejandre, Judge, Atencio, Saldana, Reyna, Ocampo-Chavez Of 30 total players Europe: 9 MLS: 8 College: 1 Richards: 1 Others: 11 I don't know what I'd consider Richards situation. MLS contract on loan in Europe. Could go either way. I'll put it in it's own category for now. I also gave Europe the benefit of the doubt with some unsigned players (Ledezma, Booth, Reyna). There are some others who have been rumored to be headed to Europe (Llanez, Duke, Araujo), but nothing concrete, so I don't think they belong in either category. There are 11 total (Araujo, Llanez, Stojanovic, Duke, Las, Gray, Alejandre, Judge, Atencio, Saldana, Ocampo-Chavez) who don't belong in any category yet. If we are being generous to MLS, we could list Llanez and Ocampo-Chavez in MLS, considering they are on MLS 2 deals, but I won't do that. Either way, as the numbers show, its completely split where our best players play. I don't know why people don't understand this.
If players want to leave, that's cool. But zero training comp de-incentivizes the maintenance of free-to-play academies.
I mentioned that RSL plays its young players. Perhaps you forgot to read that sentence. The team that, outside of FCD, seems like the best place for young US talent to play in, just lost their top 3 to Europe. And it's not like these guys are signing in the Swedish 2nd division. They're signing often at Big 4 clubs. Dunseth, FWIW, implied that they provided very lucrative offers. I can't imagine they'd lose in a bidding war with Hanover or PSV. And as I said, it's not like Hanover's some great development academy, so it seems unlikely that out of all the prospects that are leaving home and going abroad, it's all about money. You know that US players can't play abroad under professional contacts in Europe before they turn 18, right? That's why kids wait till they turn 18 to leave. It's why Sargent sat around after the U20 WC and waited around in Germany to sign with Werder. And most of those guys that are in Europe are taking up residence with Big 4 teams. Like Konrad de la Fuente. Hard for MLS to compete with Barcelona for a guy. But losing Soto to Hanover, and Josh Sarget to Bremen? Not so good.
Even if the initial contract from MLS is higher, the remuneration for actually succeeding in a top European league is going to be higher. Marshmellow test and all...
If Pulisic isn't in the XI we have zero creativity. Goes without saying really. We have to improve our wide play and rebuild the center midfield. Would be nice to have a head coach by now. We could get started on those things before the Gold Cup next summer.
11, To paraphrase your words, “The last [16] years, [major league] players have been a significant part of all of the rosters fielded by the [consistent contenders in World Cup] tournaments. No amount of smirking, sniffling, euro-[defensiveness] can alter this.
How much of this is MLS shooting itself in the foot? Putting aside that they contractually cannot get training compensation (as per players union negotiations), why don’t they offer shortish term contracts to 16-year olds where part of the clause is that the players can leave at 18 (and not be locked in) but the teams gets something if they go? Didn’t Davies sign something like this? I’m hoping the leagues works out something with the players union to allow training comp.... As an aside, I’m not sure that DAs aren’t profitable or break even for clubs. We’re in the NYRB program and there’s lots of ways that the club makes money off of youth players. I was impressed from a business perspective.