Dude, you need to stop. We've been down this road already. There are dozens of logistical hurdles before even putting a value on moving any team out of MLS into a different league. Nothing about the presence of the three Canadian teams is keeping teams from a US city either. Plus we already have a second team in NY. The thing to keep in mind is this: while the CPL gets itself going, MLS and its organizations will also continue to grow. TFC is spending $26m a year in salaries, Montreal 12 and Vancouver 8. Those numbers are not getting smaller either. Additionally, those teams draw very well and have been among the first in the league to attract the typical soccer fan into its venues. That's a lot of catch-up for the CPL. The teams all also have academies, stadia, and significant front office staff. They are established in their communities. Forbes estimates TFC, for example, to be worth north of $280m. Those three organizations are respected and accepted members of the league. The cost of extraction, buying out contracts, and dealing with the players union would be enormous. I wish the CPL the best, but I'd be surprised if any of the three MLS sides ever wanted to leave for the CPL. Its unfortunate that no one wanted to put up the money to try this before TFC, VWFC, and Montreal blazed the trail, but that's where we are and the CPL is going to have to adjust to that.
That's a fair observation. FIFA are usually not in favor of cross-country leagues and the CSA is the reason why they are allowed in MLS mainly because there was no top league in Canada at the time of the expansions
Just reporting what the CSA and CPL said: they won't be forced to move and they want CPL to grow to the point it where it makes sense for the conversation to start, realistically a decade from now. It's also a fact that the Canadian Association ultimately has the last say in the matter.
Victoria closing in on a 2019 Season We might get a 9 team league for the inaugural season: Deal close for bringing pro-soccer team to Greater Victoria; would play at Westhills http://www.timescolonist.com/sports...r-victoria-would-play-at-westhills-1.23305274
So putting those 3 teams in a much smaller money league with way fewer big names is going to improve attendance and viewership just because they are playing other canadian teams? Oh yeah, and because CFL and NHL ratings are higher. You are making your argument weaker. Since we are making predictions before the league kicks a ball...here is one for you. I predict CPL attendance and TV ratings will be significantly lower than MLS.
Not to mention, MLS owns the brands for all of the Canadian teams (US teams as well, but not germane). They could obviously be sold, but that is going to add significantly to any cost to separate the teams from MLS.
Attendance, yes. TV within Canada in the short term? Maybe to Likely TV within Canada in the long term? Doubt it Let me shift this convo into something more concrete. The Canadian Soccer Association has the last say on the ultimate fate of those 3 teams. It base it's decision solely on what's best for Canadian soccer, not on the bottom line of MLS or the teams. If it views that sanctioning them to MLS is in the best interest of Canadian soccer, then they have no reason to be moved, if not, then there will be questions being asked. We also don't know who will be in charge down the road at the CSA. Prior to 2006, they thought that MLS in Canada was for the good of Canadian soccer. In 2014, Victor Montagliani didn't think so, didn't like it and pushed CPL while threatening MLS in exchange of more concessions. Even during the latest MLS Cup final, he didn't seem to think much of the MLS Cup being played in Canada. Montagliani: Canadian soccer has to do more than just host MLS Cup https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/montagliani-canadian-soccer-just-host-mls-cup/ I think ultimately, the 3 teams have their fate in their hands. As long as they demonstrate that being in MLS is what's best for Canadian soccer, I don't see valid reason to pull them. If anything, we're having our cake and eating it too sort to speak. But Vancouver and Montreal better get their act together. Vancouver shutting down their USL team in Canada and just affiliate with Fresno was a very bad move. It doesn't help them make the argument that status quo is good for Canadian Soccer. That's less opportunities for Canadian players and more resources being sent south of the border. The CSA can't be pleased with such a decision. Montreal shut down their PLSQ Academy and affiliate with Ottawa in a US league. Imitating Vancouver once Ottawa moves to CPL would be a huge mistake which also doesn't help to convince the CSA. TFC is the one actually trying here despite the criticism but the lack of result if equally puzzling and they need to show better results in developing players. It's not about profits, MLS or the teams bottom line, it's about what the CSA deems to be in it's best interest. Btw, without the sheer complexity of MLS, it's been done before. The Ontario Soccer Association told it's Ontario based teams that they would no longer be allowed to play in PDL. Only Thunder Bay was exempted due to geography. Tip of my head, Windsor, London and KW United were forced out of PDL. FIFA convention is crystal clear on the matter, the local body holds all the cards on what's going on in their territories.
I'll make this easy because the USSF is certainly going through quite a bit of this at the moment.Let's say you own TFC which gives you a slice of SUM, you have a 40k seat stadium, you sell out just about every game, have won a few trophies, a great academy and facilities, an enormous payroll, and a loyal fanbase. You're part of league with quite a bit of money and regional clout. Are you and your league really going to just roll over for a national governing body with a second to market competing league? The answer to that is going to be hell no. That would be a ridiculously expensive scenario where the CSA/CPL winning, best case, results in it being far poorer and three successful Canadian soccer teams either shuttered completely or left as empty shells. I do not know anything about Canadian anti-trust law. I suspect its quite a bit different because local content quotas and things like that are legal in ways they would not be here. However, what you describe reads a whole lot like a significant restraint of trade and the owners, especially well financed owners, of MLS would not sit back and just take that.
So would the CSA really have 100% completely control over what league the 3 MLS teams play in? I see this kind of thing being decided in court. If the CSA tried to mandate a move I can promise you MLS and TFC etc are going to fight it...hard.
The CSA and CPL has already said they won't force them into CPL but focus at building the league up so that one day it makes sense for them to do so. To answer your hypothetical question, according to FIFA convention, CSA has the last say. MLS nor the clubs could do much about the CSA revoking its sanction of its members in MLS, except going through the legal stuff of leaving the league. You also have to understand that both MLS and Clubs understood FIFA Conventions and agreed to existing rules ahead of sealing the deal. Outside of whatever their contract stipulates in the event of a separation, there not much they could do. What said contracts says about that is what would ultimately factor in on pulling the trigger or not. You and I don't know those clauses. So far, CPL ownership has been very solid. Where you see them picking up the tab and go broke, some would see it as an investment, (costly sure), but that would shift the league to the next level in term of potential ROI, notoriety and other added value which may or may not be quantifiable. You mean the Canadian Competition Act, I don't think it applies here, not even remotely. I can't find which article of the Act this scenario would violate. Besides, going to court against the CSA means that you're suing FIFA itself.
The devil's in the details... The CSA can decide who or what to sanction. So no, the CSA "can't" force a move, but it can stop them from playing in MLS. That's what I mean by the association holding all the cards. When the OSA did the same to PDL, it told the teams that it would no longer allowed Ontario teams in PDL (except Thunder Bay). Teams could fold or join L1O, even join an unsanctioned league if they really want to but it wasn't OSA that moved them... Sanctioning isn't a right, it's a privilege. Just ask NASL
It depends on how the sanctioning was granted.. In NASL's case, they were under an annual review process and after failing to meet the D2 requirements for 6 seasons and no sign of progress to meet those requirements, they had their D2 sanctioning revoked. If the Canadian MLS teams are under similar reviews, then CSA could revoke their sanctioning.. If there was no time frame on the sanctioning, or if it didn't include language that the sanctioning could be revoked, that may open the CSA up to a situation where they can't tell the Canadian MLS teams they can't play in MLS and/or will find themselves sued to within an inch of their lives.
Sactioning is different than not allowing to play. NASL is free to keep playing all they want. They just are not allowed to keep the DII label. I could see CSA saying MLS isn't DI in Canada but saying the teams are not allowed to play in MLS is a whole different can of worms. I think think this would be a court battle. They could remove the teams from the Canadian Championship and not allow them to represent Canada in the CCL, but not allow them to play in MLS??? That seems very questionable. I admittedly don't know how it works. Looking at it from a simpleton's view like me...I don't see how CSA could tell the 3 teams they cannot play soccer if they stay in MLS.
According to USL President, it heavily implies that Canadian Soccer Association members playing in US leagues gets renewed on a yearly basis. Also, Montagliani's threat or revoking the sanctioning to MLS wasn't refuted by anyone, not the teams, not the league, not the media... no one. The CSA can do it.
They can play in MLS if the league will have unsanctioned teams within its ranks. The CSA can't make them do anything ultimately, but it doesn't have to sanction them. Without the CSA sanctioning, there would be no MLS games disputed in Canada. As for them playing in MLS without a CSA sanction...let's just say that it would be a very bad idea.
You are talking in circles here. I think you or I are misunderstanding the word "sanction" and it may be me. I understand CSA has the authority to sanction MLS or not sanction it. I agree. What I don't agree on is that the CSA can tell a private business they can't be part of an organization (MLS). What do you mean by "no MLS games disputed in Canada."? Are you saying without sanctioning by CSA the 3 Canadian MLS teams couldn't play any games on Canadian soil? If so then how do they play friendlies?
They could be sanctioned by USSF.. Much like how the Welsh teams are sanctioned by the FA. It would, of course, exclude them from playing in the Canadian Championship and qualifying for CCL via that path. Considering the number of teams playing in the leagues for countries other than their own, the Canadian MLS teams would have a VERY good case with FIFA to remain in MLS based on their existing before the CPL was created and, in theory, inferior conditions within CPL.
Nobody is arguing that CSA wouldn't be able to tell any Canadian MLS teams they can't participate in the Canadian Championship or represent Canadian in the CCL. That is a given. What some of us are saying is that we don't believe CSA has the authority to tell a professional soccer team they can't exist if they play in MLS.
Pretty sure the CSA would have to agree to it, which they wouldn't. They are members of the CSA and based in Canada. They can move south but we both know that wouldn't happen. But FIFA itself isn't a fan of cross-border leagues. Those are the exceptions, not the norm. There's no case to be made here if hypothetically it were to happen, Montagliani made that pretty clear. "Inferior" conditions... Nice one!
You have to understand that those 3 teams are in MLS only because the CSA allowed it and keep allowing it. The CSA can't tell a professional soccer team they can't exist if they play in MLS. They simply don't have to sanction it. That would mean, no MLS games in Canada and MLS letting unsanctioned teams in it's league, which they wouldn't allow either. You don't have to like it, doesn't make it less true even if you disagree with it.
Again.. I point you to the dozens of teams that play in the leagues for countries other than their own.. If the CSA tries to push the Canadian MLS teams into their system, they'd have quite a bit of precedent to fight against to be successful. The Canadian MLS teams were created prior to the existence of the CPL, or any plans for the CPL. Any attempts to force the Canadian MLS teams out of MLS and into CPL would find itself dragged for years through the Canadian and FIFA courts. There isn't an advantage to forcing it to happen, so I'm not sure why CSA would even try.
This is exactly what court cases are based on and won. Exceptions, not the norm. Bottom line is it happens and FIFA allows it. That is all that is needed.
You are hilarious. I still don't think CSA could tell the MLS teams they can't play soccer games in Canada. This would be the same thing as telling them they can't exist, but you said they can't tell them they can't exist. So you are saying the CSA has the authority to tell TFC they can't conduct business if they stay associated with MLS? Wow!
Yes, and again, the home association MUST agree to it. No it wouldn't because, again, they aren't planning on doing that (forcing them into CPL). However, they can revoke the sanctioning to MLS. That's why I pointed out what Vancouver did as "dangerous" and hoping Montreal doesn't do the same. That move was against the interests of Canadian Soccer. That sanctioning remains only if the CSA deems it in the interest of Canadian Soccer. That's what drives their decisions. That simple. This really has no ground for courts
Yeah let CSA try to stand between rich guys and millions upon millions and see if it "has no grounds for courts."