Crystal Palace v. The Arsenal, Saturday January 11 1230 GMT

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by mebeSajid, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Walia Ibex

    Walia Ibex Red Card

    Arsenal
    Ethiopia
    Oct 2, 2019
    We haven't had an aerial threat since Giroud, hence why Giroud starts over Laca in the French NT and his height.
     
  2. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In theory

    But VAR is still largely interpretive, if not subjective, based on which brain is making the decision: video ref or head ref.

    If there was one person or one consistent team of people at Stockley, then we'd be more prone to get consistent decisions. Not necessarily the right decisions but probably more consistent ones.

    One of my big bugbears is how the EPL has decided not to use the pitch side screens. And how that has therefore taken the decision away from the HR and put it more into the hands of the VAR.

    I think they will reverse this policy next season if not sooner.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Nah don't buy it sorry

    e.g. at the RWC in Japan they introduced new very strong interpretation of contact to the head in tackles and it was consistently enforced.

    In this case, it is clear that there are multiple other tackles including one from the same weekend that are dangerous like Auba

    There is no way VAR can have missed Robertson's tackle
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Nah don't buy it sorry

    e.g. at the RWC in Japan they introduced new very strong interpretation of contact to the head in tackles and it was consistently enforced.

    In this case, it is clear that there are multiple other tackles including one from the same weekend that are dangerous like Auba

    There is no way VAR can have missed Robertson's tackle
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Laca is a strictly b-list striker
     
  6. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the NBCSN studio had Mark Clatterburg (former FA ref) to get his assessment of the Auba Red after the game ended on Saturday. He said that he thought it was a red without any other context, but said that in the bigger context of fouls that had been allowed so far this season, it was totally inconsistent. There is loads of data to support our case, whether the FA will seriously look at it is a whole other matter.
     
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  7. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    He’s very good at some things, but he’s not a complete player. Quite frankly that appears to be Arsenal’s problem. They have a team of players that are very good at one or two things, but none of them are complete players. The trick is to put together a team that takes advantage of each player’s strengths, while minimizing their weaknesses.
     
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  8. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't see the Robertson tackle but aren't these the possible conclusions to that decision?...

    (a) VAR was asleep at the wheel (I agree with you that that's unlikely)

    (b) VAR was biased towards Liverpool or against Spurs (I know you're quite open to refereeing conspiracies but I'm not really)

    (c) VAR had a different interpretation of Robertson tackle compared to the VAR for Auba tackle (seems very plausible to me)

    (d) VAR for Robertson didn't want to "overrule" the HR's original decision, whereas VAR for Auba did (also seems plausible)

    For me it's likely "c" and/or "d". And that gets back to my premise that the lack of consistency is closely tied to the fact that different people, different brains, reach different interpretations.

    And if "d" turns out to be a significant factor, then I think that can be mitigated by the HR actually using the pitch-side screen! I.e. The HR overruling themself is a whole lot different than the VAR overruling the HR.
     
  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    My point is, in a properly run VAR system, you don't get "differing intepretations" dominating decisions

    Years of experience shows its not hard to be consistent so long as the guidelines are clear.

    What frustrates me is the constant belief football is in a unique year zero kind of scenario when other sports already worked so much of this stuff out.
     
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  10. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. And I think few Arsenal supporters would argue against seeing dangerous fouls (even if unintentional) like Auba's punished harshly. But we shouldn't be the only team punished in that regard.
     
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  11. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nicolas Pepe agrees.
     
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  12. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah but I think it's not realistic to expect that a well-implemented VAR system will necessarily produce great consistency. Fewer errors for sure, but you're still dealing with humans not AI-machines making the final call, and that's where the inconsistency is rooted IMHO.

    You will probably still disagree, and perhaps use Rugby as the example of how it can and should work. I have no way of refuting that because I don't watch any other sport and it's video-review system, like I do with footy.

    So enough said, I suspect.
     
  13. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A little closer to home and more discrete...

    What's the word on LT's injury?

    I missed it happening at the time. All I've seen is that the boss confirmed a "muscular injury" and it's awaiting a scan.

    What muscle/area was it?
     
  14. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My guess would be his back as a result of Zaha's cynical push on Pepe while he was jumping and Pepe's subsequent fall on top of Torreira. Of course, no card given.
     
  15. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I missed it at the time. I hope it's not too major. He was finally getting a run of games and playing to his strength.

    LT is a tough little guy. So for him to be taken out due to injury, I don't suppose it's trivial.
     
  16. dm3mdgtr

    dm3mdgtr Member

    Jun 17, 2003
    Mckinney, TX
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It honestly didn't look bad at all. I'm a little surprised he is actually injured but you never know how you can tweak a muscle like that.
     
  17. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What happened to LT happened to my brother during a college game back in the day. Landed on his tailbone after getting undercut going for a header, got major spasms. My brother lost feeling and movement in his legs for 3-4 hours. Had to be taken to hospital via ambulance for evaluation. I was playing in the same game and left with him. One of the scariest moments of my life. Took a couple months for him to fully recover.

    IOW, Torreira's injury could have been far worse, but could still be serious. Obviously hoping it's nothing to be concerned about.
     
  18. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The idea that the officials shouldn't decide the game is completely counter to what the people in charge of the game should want. The fewer fouls you call the more you reward playing outside the rules. This is why I hate Pep. His teams are so aggressive and physical on defense that they dare the officials to call fouls on every single turnover, and the refs just won't do it.
     
  19. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not a straight up appeal, but it looks like we're trying to get Aubameyang's ban reduced --- citing the examples I mentioned above, ie., similar tackles, including several on our players have not been similarly punished. And apparently, the "frivolous appeal" penalty doesn't apply.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/14/arsenal-pierre-emerick-aubameyangs-suspension-12056000/

    Again, I doubt we'll succeed, but I agree that a point needed to be made. I'd say it's a big analogous to certain political machinations currently proceeding in a certain country.
     
  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    IMO he is a decent 2nd striker - we just paid way too much for him

    At that money we should have got a complete player like you say
     
  21. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Denied. Unfortunately, as expected.

    https://www.skysports.com/football/...ck-aubameyangs-red-card-against-palace-upheld
     

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