Criticism of the political left

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by ceezmad, Aug 9, 2015.

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  1. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    BLM = Blacks, Latinos, and Mongolians.
     
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  2. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Beat me to it.
    Plus, those Zsa Zsa Gabor dogs they're allowed to have up there ain't gonna hurt nobody
     
  3. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are a lot of problems in Latin America that contribute to the failure of Keynesianism. It's a big, complicated mess that the US, thankfully, has never* tried to sort out with violence and ended up making the situation worse. Dodged a bullet there, didn't we?



    *No I'm not an idiot. This is called sarcasm.
     
  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not a Sanders expert, but we have a couple hundred billion sitting around in the defense budget that gets wasted every year (if you subscribe to Sanders' foreign policy.)

    If you employ a typical liberal's foreign policy, it's actually not that hard to cut the deficit because defense spending is so preposterously bloated.
     
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  5. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I'd start with at least one of the super carriers.
     
  6. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shit in the old wall street journal fix the budget thing they had, I raised taxes on all, cut the shit out of military, social security and medicare. I was able to balance the budget, pay down debt and have a little something-something left over for my switzerland bank account.

    Is not hard, politics is what makes it complicated.
     
  7. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    If you can't say specifically what you are going to cut or by what percentages you are no better than the politicians who just say they are going to cut waste.
     
  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every thing a lot.

    I don't know man, I don't have the list in front of me.
     
  9. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I'll throw in another. I'd increase the tax rates to back where they were during the Clinton administration.
     
  10. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    With all due respect isn't it a Congress person's duty to do no harm. By making sure that all of his sponsored bills failed saved many taxpayer's $$. I do like his proposal to increase SS payments if they should go to persons of a particular age and move it up by 1 every year. Increasing the tax rate for everyone who makes more than I is OK also. :)
     
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  11. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Coonhounds were first bred in Alabammy if I'm not mistaken...
     
  12. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    The Hypocritic's Oath?
    Of course. Also, eliminating all deductions that you do not use.
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For sure but for many lefties (mostly in developing countries) Doing Keynesian economics eventually leads to this.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...junk-sends-bonds-sliding-as-petrobras-tumbles

    For some people hey -mis-use- Keynesian theory to just spend money with out thinking on a way on how they will ever pay it back.

    Brazil was doing good things in poverty reduction, but they were ridding the boom years, and they are collapsing now that they are gone.

    I guess the answer is that they need to spend more money ;)
     
  14. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    OK, even of you accept the idea that you can cut all that stuff and balance the budget (never mind whether it's politically feasible), Sanders is saying increase social security benefits, single payer health system for everyone, free college - all those expenses are going to go up with time and aging of the population. That's a gigantic increase in spending. Most of what he says I agree with, but he is making a bunch of promises he can't keep and that's why I say he's just another bullshit politician.
     
  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is Japan the future of us all?

    http://www.economist.com/news/finan...t-efforts-japans-economic-future-will-be-leap

    Japan does show that countries can take on a lot of debt and still have relatively low interest, so people that complain about 100% of GDP debt are a bit off, not that having 250% of GDP debt is something we should all aim for, but in case of emergencies there is room, if there is political will, the problem is getting out of the habit of trying to spend your way out of problems.

     
  16. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think there are plenty of flaws in Keynesian and neo-Keynesian economics. But to be fair to Keynes and his followers, no economic theory can possibly be a panacea to the levels of corruption that exist in Latin America.
     
  17. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Keynes wept.
     
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  18. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not just corruption. The fundamental political problem, as I understand it, is that the Peronists/Bolivarians/populists compete with the conservatives/US-backed dictators/US-backed corporations (you get the idea) with such a vast ideological space between them that compromise, a necessity in multiparty electoral regimes, is virtually impossible.

    If we think of the economic ideological policy space as being unidimensional, the gap between American Democrats and Republicans would be like the distance between the Earth and the Moon, and the distance between the Latin American left and right as the distance between the Earth and, say, Pluto. There aren't major moderate parties that both sides could accept.

    This leaves you with only a few options: near-totalitarian powers in the President (see: Brazil), gridlock, or wild swings in who is in power, and subsequent swings in policy. This creates an uncertain economic climate for investors. Keynesianism, much like other economic policies, needs stability to work.
     
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  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #44 ceezmad, Nov 12, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
    Former President Cardoso (I think) in Brazil set up economic policies (his ministers) that the left has respected (similar in Chile), Lula and the new President just added a lot of very good social programs during the boom times that helped a lot of poor people, now that commodity exports are down, revenues have collapsed and Brazil can't cover all the extra expense (and congress does not want to cut other fat that as you would say makes government work).

    Brazil is in a bad place right now, the need fiscal stimulus to grow, but the markets don't trust them so debt is getting expensive. So the currency is dropping that makes exports more competitive, but China the huge market is slowing down, so if the demand is not there it does not mater how cheap the supply is.

    China has an appetite to invest overseas with their construction firms, Brazil needs lots of investment in infrastructure, so perhaps more open rules regarding foreign ownership is the way to go for them.

    One of the big problems with Keynesian economics, is that is hard to run deficits when people do not want to let you borrow money (or want a high interest). But as I point above, that is not an issue with big developed countries like the USA and Japan, markets will keep on lending us money regardless of our debt size
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This part I did not understand, maybe @nicephoras can help explain it to me, it sounds like the bank of Japan buying up all of the debt, and doing something to spark high inflation (Japan needs inflation).

     
  21. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yeah, Japan's economy is confusing.

    My point was not so much about Japan but about Keynes, because many people call themselves Keynesians -or conversely put down the Keynesian theories- and yet they have never even read Keynes, let alone understand his ideas.

    Unlike the Neo-Keynesians, Keynes would not have approved of the way Japan is handling its economy. Keynes believed in deficit spending during a recession in order to stimulate the economy, but he believed that in general nations should strive to have a surplus. Journalist and commentators today may call it "Keynesian economics", but the levels of deficit spending we see today, particularly in Japan, would have appalled Keynes.
     
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  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well she is out of power now, but the results of high taxes to rich farmers to funds hand outs to poor urban people.

    http://www.economist.com/news/ameri...-best-and-some-worst-argentina-down-riverside
     
  23. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why move to Canada


     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno. Some of the satire hits its mark, but much of it indulges in the fiction that being against bigotry is intolerant. Nobody says that putting kidnappers in prison is hypocrisy.
     
  25. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Colin Jost punches down to make a similar point - being too diverse is a negative today. Must be something in water at SNL.

    CxzU5mFWEAA8rkd.jpg

    http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/colin-jost-is-a-dumbass-1789262223
     

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