I'm agree, the difference between them is short and that represents 20 positions of difference in my own all-time ranking. What I think it's not a good appreciation is thinking that the things could significantly change just only because Cristiano Ronaldo won the UEFA Champions League this year. In individual terms Messi is over Ronaldo also this season in my opinion and probably will be even if Messi can't win any trophy and Ronaldo all of them. Also I think the peak of performance of the Argentine is over Ronaldo in the 2004 European Championship. The subjective example of Baggio seems me not too appropiate because it's not a certain and, especially, because the level of this players are more than only the number of goals scored for each one.
LOL! Cristiano is better than Ronaldo and Cryuff??? He scores a goal against Barca and he is the real Ronaldo? Nice going fanboys. Hahahaaaa!!!!! Let him score 15 goals in the WC, win a bunch of WCs and Continental championships...then we'll talk.
This is something that deserves deeper analysis and it cannot be accepted with just a few words. But since you brought it up, perhaps you have access to the archives of that time and know the specifics? It would be interesting.
You speak some truth, because the disparity in the wealth that some of these European clubs have today cannot be compared to what many former greats had to deal with. Clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Arsenal, etc. – make so much revenue, that they can go shopping on the market for the top players and search for replacements when it’s time to renovate. They have the financial luxury to build 'super teams' – which was impossible in some older generations.
Marketing applies to all of them, because if it didn’t, on abilities alone, Moreno or Zizinho would have a case to be on top with them.
Respuesta: Re: Cristiano vs Pele vs Cryuff vs Maradona It's from a deeper analysis. I spent around a couple of years to do an article about the best footballer of the world year by year since 1908 (it's in the blog of my signature as Mejor Futbolista del Año) and I could appreciate how many times Pelé was into my shortlist as a serious candidate in my opinion.
I remember a list by Sports Illustrated in 1994 (a few months after the WC) where it ranked the top earning athletes (including endorsements, salary, etc.). Roberto Baggio was the only soccer player featured in the top 50, at about $6-7 million. Messi makes that in one month nowadays. On ability, Maradona can do things with the ball that noone else could.
Re: Respuesta: Re: Cristiano vs Pele vs Cryuff vs Maradona But do you have access to any archives of that epoch?
Well, this is one of the main reasons why I’m not so interested in current football. The further back we go, the higher appreciation I have. It is very difficult to reach that conclusion, since video evidence of players' pre-1960 is scarce.
Let's look at how the transfer fee works thru the years as deduction: Late 57's: Sivori to Juve: 1.7 mil eu Mid 73's: Cruijff to Barca: 8.3 mil eu 1984 Maradona to Napoli: 11.6mil 1998 Ronaldo to Inter 25.3mil 2002 Zidane to Real .......56.4mil 2009 CR7 to Real ..........101.2mil so in the 2000s there is a BIG JUMP in price - and of course salary
Apart from that, many people saw Maradona doing assists with overhead kicks but the funny thing is, George Best and Cruijff did the same! That is on tape actually but many people don't know this. Many people assume that he was the most skillful ever, maybe he was, but it doesn't mean that other greats couldn't do the same. Seriously: also George Best had, at least, once in his career an assist with an overhead flick in an official league game. However, one can find on youtube many videos with flicks of Maradona but very few of other greats. Somehow, it bothers me a bit that predominantly the dribbles are singled out in Best&Cruijff his case and the goals in Puskas his case. As for Cruijff, the best and most of his saved material is dated from 1981-1984 period, when he was old. That gives a good glimpse of what he was able to do; how skillful he was. Only that period is saved in a thorough and consistent manner in the archives. On the other hand; just precise relatively few material is available, it can give a player a mythical status. That Maradona managed to achieve this status in an age where, from ~1985 onwards, almost everything is saved, is remarkable.
What was an ability that Maradona had which no other was able to reproduce since the 1960s? Do you have an example?
he can juggle with an "orange" j/k with anything [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vJVykLQrhs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vJVykLQrhs[/ame]
Many of them, I had to check a lot of archives and references. Particularly for that frag of time isn't so difficult, if you like to investigate his career you can start finding sources and videos just in internet and compare them to many references, even asking to many other users in this forum with a very good level of knowledge.
Even within those teams there is a clear hierarchy. Arsenal belongs to the second tier. They simply can't keep their best players.
This is not true. The rise of marketing as a separate profession began in the mid 1970s. The popularity on universities is a good indicator. Only then marketing became a separate branch in the global economy. That is also a reason why shirt advertising rose in the early 80s. I mean: it was widely covered in Europe how many multi-million dollar contracts Maradona had with companies. Ajax of the early 70s was not there, yet. Various player have told about that they only realized their legacy when they moved abroad. During their time at Ajax, they had not the slightest idea about their international fame and market value.
Agree ... 70s started with first ever color TV that helps boosting marketing toward a new horizon But Pipiolo's point is also good in a sense that in mid 90's with the "hitech" of INTERNET , marketing has been brought up to the TOP
On this subject: I read a week ago a nice article about the background of the 'forgotten' euro2004 tournament. Spain was the favorite to win the bid. But Spain, Germany and England made a mistake: they proposed a dual-track qualification system, among other things. This backfired, the smaller nations remembered very well what became of the Champions League: a commercial monster to suit the larger nations. They refused to make the same mistake with international football. Those smaller ones supported Portugal as host. Interestingly, the semi-finals consisted of Portugal vs Holland and Greece versus Czech Republic. But now, 10 years later, some proposals like expanding the euros and introducing a collective tv-rights deal, are adopted anyway. I expect a further consolidation and concentration on the international scene too.
No, the most important thing is that it became a separate branch in the economy and also a separate track at universities. Just as the emergence of companies that had marketing as their core-business, this phenomenon rose in the mid-70s. Correct. The funny thing is: Bernabeu and the Brazilians politicians were visionaries. Bernabeu foresaw the potential of European football just like the Brazilian generals saw the potential of the World Cup and what success could mean for the image of Brazil in the world. Remember: Brazil had in 1970 many months of preparation while other nations were still playing in their domestic leagues (or fighting for the European Cups). The Brazilian authorities saw the cultural power of the World Cup. And this also helped Pelé of course, eventually.
What archives? What references? What are the names of the sources and documents? Where did you get them? Do you have access to match-reports of every weekend of that time-period? I know it’s a tough task, but if an historian is going to write a book about the timeline of details of events, having access to the archives is imperative. Gathering some video footage and taking into account what some people said is not enough. In regards to others on this forum with the knowledge of that time-period, I seriously doubt it. It is more than likely that most people on this forum are roughly between the ages of 15 to 35. To know the details of that era, a person would have to be at least 65 to 70-years-old and to have been from that country. Even then, they would not be able to remember without having access to newspaper articles stating the events. The only way to properly investigate and know what was going on is to have access to the archives of that time-period with the match-reports, etc. But no-one has been able to provide me with that type of info, so I cannot grant anyone with the distinction of being the word of authority on his career.
I’ve seen him juggle two miniature balls at the same time back in 1990, and he had no problems at juggling anything as you said. Which reminds me: I remember Argentina’s Coach Alfio Basile stating in 1993 when he first saw Maradona in training - what caught his eye was how Diego used to train with his shoe-laces untied, and that he never saw anyone that he trained do that before. Diego had the ability to still maintain his balance even with the shoe-laces loose in the air.
No. No-one can hold claim of inventing anything, especially without having access to visual evidence from the beginning of time. And I’ve said this in the past: Maradona’s greatest virtue was his valiance. He was the most fouled player I saw in my lifetime, but he still had the courage to get up and keep going.