To be fair, the video mostly shows him as a very good ball-handler but not necessarily as a dribbler. It shows that he can create space and time for himself on the ball (similar to what players like Bergkamp and Zidane were able to do, except of course CR7 is still in much better physical shape than those two were at the same age) but his dribbling no longer really BREAKS DOWN a defense like he used to in his prime.
Examples exist of him breaking down the entire defence of elite teams as atletico Madrid 8 weeks ago 8:35 They are few and far between (I'll return to this later as there are other examples vs Tottenham in the 17/18 CL Admittedly a while ago now Still this goes to show the agenda of all sections of the media(even supposed neutrals) It doesn't even matter if he isn't a elite dribbler any more (Some will say he never was to begin with but that's another topic) Fabio capello (and altafini recently)have weighed in on Cristianos latest example of petulance by propagating fake news That's it At least critic the guy for what he has done(supossedly swearing at his manager) Not for what he has not done (failing to dribble past an opponent in 3 years)
Ronaldo was never an elite dribbler during his prime, but a great one ofc during his Utd days and early RM days(2009-10 especially).
Depends on what you mean by "elite". If elite is Messi around the turn of the decade then no, Ronaldo was not "elite" in his prime, but then there would only be like 3 "elite" dribblers in all of football history
Elite means guys like Pele,Maradona,Cruyff,Baggio,Best,Messi,Prime Ronaldo9, Ronaldinho etc. I do like Ronaldo, but he wasn’t really elite tier though as a dribbler.
But why were those guys elite and Ronaldo wasn't? I guess the first thing we'd have to outline is the criteria. For me, personally, I only have one. How effective someone's dribbling is. I genuinely couldn't care less about flashiness. Ronaldo, at his peak, was as effective a dribbler as I've ever seen, which why is why I rate him as elite. What are the criterias that you have that those players tick but Ronaldo didn't?
Peak Ronaldo wasn’t really as effective as any one of them in that list. Nor did he score as much solo dribble goals as them. Plus, he ain’t that good when it comes to small space dribbling. Like I said “he was great”, but not “elite”. If Ronaldo was so elite as a dribbler then he shouldn’t be an average dribbler currently despite the age.
These are attacking/dribbling runs into the penalty area from a 4 consecutive year period(prior to his 25th birthday) No skills, no flashiness and no showboating He is taking on here with remarkable consistency anything between 1-4 players What is elite in your opinion The creme de la creme? That would be Lionel Messi and Maradona up until world cup 1986 after which his physical condition declined Could throw in dejan savecivic, could also throw in Ronaldo de lima in his debut campaign for Inter The rest is questionable to put it lightly If we could say there are two types of elite dribblers The creative ones and the individualists(virtuosos) The former use their dribbling predominantly to create openings and chances for their teammates We could put Eden hazard here Or neymar JR (his prime) In Santos he was more an individualist/soloist type dribbler Could put Ronaldinho gaucho 05/06 when his physical condition already begun to deteriorate Micheal Laudrup Maradona post 86 Possibly Zinedine Zidane Luis figo The virtuoso is the one who can receive the ball anywhere in the opposition half and make a direct contribution by himself Usually virtuoso's are great ball carriers and adequate finishers with enough solo type goals Could put here Roberto Baggio his latter seasons for fiorentina and juventus Ronaldo de lima 1996-1998 Lionel Messi 2007-2013 Ronaldinho 2003/04 Maradona for Boca (first stint) Argentinos juniors Could also add his debut campaign for both napoli and FC Barcelona Pele too was a gifted physical and technical specimen Cristiano from 2007 up until roughly 2010 was that type of dribbler 2009 wasn't good for him was still recovering from injuries and appeared stiff for large portions of the season CRonaldo has his games in CL and league format when he is literally unplayable as a dribbling threat Some have been posted here already
189 - Cristiano Ronaldo completed 189 dribbles from 2003/04 season to 2008/09 (included) in Champions League. Break.— OptaJose (@OptaJose) May 7, 2020 189 dribbles completed in the champions league between 2003/04 up until 2008/09 4277 minutes played 4.0 dribbles per 90 Source: Opta No doubt his dribbles are lowered by his ankle injury sustained in March 2008 that took away some of his fluidity and derailed the beginning of his 2008/09 campaign https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...jury-fears-put-Real-Madrid-move-in-doubt.html Some more interesting facts uncovered 506 - @Cristiano completed 506 dribbles in the @premierleague, more than any other player in the competition between 2003 & 2009. Ability#AskOpta#AskOptaJosé#StayHome #StayAtHome https://t.co/mM8kPAkhrk pic.twitter.com/0NTToOpCjM— OptaJose (@OptaJose) May 14, 2020 14541 minutes played in the premier league 3.1 dribbles per 90 I think the premise of my thread is proven Ronaldo was definitely at the least a world class dribbler Not merely good/adequate/just ok He was world class At his best(2006-2008) his combination of speed,directness,skills and close control was one of the best ever And he played in the most defensive era in PL history 121 top flight seasons have been played in British football history 2006/07 was the 3rd most defensive during that time frame Behind only the 1970/71 And 1973/74 seasons https://www.worldfootball.net/stats/eng-premier-league/1/ Then there is the high volume of fouls he suffered and the general toughness of the league at that time https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/22253531 Waiting for opta to reveal his 2006/07 data I envisage he had anywhere between 3 to 4.5 dribbles per 90 I mean even opta stats aside there are many threads that point to this In 2007 and 2008 calender years He was firmly in the conversation for best dribbler in the world https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/best-dribbler.709034/ There was a consensus on this No merely good dribbler has ever been in the conversation for best dribbler in the world. It never happened In the champions league final vs Chelsea he had 8 completed dribbles according to opta 8 - Only two players have completed 8+ dribbles in a single Champions League final prior to 2010: Barcelona's Ronaldinho (10) vs Arsenal (2006) and Manchester United's Cristiano Ronaldo (8) vs Chelsea (2008). Success. pic.twitter.com/CmTLNBaojS— OptaJose (@OptaJose) March 26, 2020 This doesn't include the tonnes of ball carrying he did(And that he always did in his prime) Crosses,chances he created and above all crucial goal he scored This is always ignored In the discussion Instead we get the "he is just a great goalscorer crowd" headlined by the contradictory TV personality Gary lineker Ronaldo is a pure goalscorer. You could argue the best, especially the last few years. Messi, though, scores as many as CR but he’s also the best dribbler and passer in the world. He’s joyous to watch. There really is no comparison.— Gary Lineker (@GaryLineker) January 13, 2019 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...becoming-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time.html
You said OPTA didn't have that data, but it looks like they have tho. lol Puck said here young Ronaldo completed 4+ dribbles per match (or per 90), so it is nothing new, but he had a low sucess percentage tho (40-45%). I don't have a each season dribbles stats. (OPTA didn't provided yet.)I think that CR7's dribbles performance was much more mature in 0607, but stats were better when he was in 04~06.— bexco07 (@bexco07) May 15, 2020 Are you bexco07 btw?
The info from Squawka Cristiano completed 233 dribbles between 2006/2007 and 2008/2009. 2.53 per 90 in the EPL. He completed 1.89 per 90 in his last year at United (EPL) https://statsbomb.com/2015/02/gifolution-cristiano-ronaldos-best-years/ That is ~175 dribbles in the 07/08 and 06/07 season, that is 2.84 dribbles per 90. He completed 3.92 per 90 in the EPL between 2003/2004 and 2005/2006. So this number of Carlitos is indeed right. More detail.CR7 Dribbles completed (per 90min) 2003~09 : 14,541 min / 506 d.c / 3.1 2003~06 : 6,262 min / 273 d.c / 3.92006~09 : 8279 min / 233 d.c / 2.5— bexco07 (@bexco07) May 14, 2020 Messi completed 334 dribbles between 2006-2007 and 2008-2009, 4.64 per 90, not much different than his 2009-2010 season for example.
Number of "carlitos" I don't know what you're talking about mate A 20 second twitter search shows that you got that 233 number from a Messi fanboy https://mobile.twitter.com/MeticulousViews Not squawka or carlitos The squawka link doesn't even mention 233 The world is currently awash with fake news and nostalgic football https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news/461962/ronaldo-brazil-keeper-goals/
Sorry, you don't seem to know how to count here in Forum BIGSoccer. The number was right in fact, it is 233. 175 between 2006-2007 and 2007-2008, an average of 2.84. Ask Opta yourself. Cristiano may not even completed 3 dribbles per 90 in the 06/07 EPL! Maybe he was a better dribbler in 07/08.
He attempted 21 and was successful on 14. https://t.co/ADFRuCk51e— Orbinho (@Orbinho) August 13, 2020 Carlitos indeed asked Orbinho for the help, he knows the number is correct now.
Statsbomb calculated his dribbles to be ..... Do Statsbomb calculate dribbles the same as opta? Is OptaJoe now the equivalent of a football bible? R9 completed less than 2 dribbles per match in the 1998 WC(his absolute peak) You say he dribbled WAY less for the Brazilian NT than for his clubs Do you have data for this claim? Answer directly please or not at all If the answer is no And the answer is no than why do you ask everyone to substantiate their claims with data when you yourself have no qualms making outlandish observations about R9(having the ability if he played today to complete 30 dribbles in 1 match in a champions league quarter final) I'll tell you for starters Opta is no football bible Not for dribbles,assists or anything else That's my opinion respect it or not Opta says CR completed 8 dribbles vs Chelsea (CL final) InStat credits him with 12 dribbles 'Joe bloggs' on Twitter credits him with 13 At the end of the day it is a perception (on what does and what doesn't constitute as a dribble/assist) And you are talking about counting LMFAO Completing more dribbles does not equal better dribbler That is a retarded statement Tell me if iniesta ever dribbled anywhere near as much as Wilfred flipping Zaha and then try and convince anyone with an iota of common sense that zaha was a better dribbler Cristiano 06/07 was not a wing dribbler He was a free role Do you understand what that means before we move forward? He started on the left and played anywhere he thought would cause maximum damage He dribbled in the centre probably as much as he did on the wing or midfield And many of his runs ended in a shot,cross,Kp No version of R9 can touch this 97-99 R9 is a better finisher than 06/07 CR BUT THAT'S IT!!! 2008-2014 is 2 levels above R9(who wasn't more prolific than van basten FORGET about Gerd muller and you can dream of R9 replicating Cristiano and Messis scoring rates And like I started by saying R9 was not a prolific dribbler(at least not by your preferred opta definition) He liked to run with the ball which gave off an illusion perhaps that he was always beating players on the run And the world cup is a small sample size but I find it highly implausible that R9 was a much worse dribbler with an infinitely greater support cast(Brazil) then he was with an infinitely worse support cast inter Milan His performance vs Lazio is a marquee match whether you like it or not And he only completed 5 dribbles there CR at 30 years old did that against atletico Madrid 14/15 with WAY more playmaking,crossing,passing etc https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/8...-LaLiga-2014-2015-Real-Madrid-Atletico-Madrid And Lazio 97/98 WAS NOT the 6th best team in the world LOL The were the 7th best team in Italy The 6th best team in the world does not lose in a frigging UEFA cup final,finish 7th in their domestic league Losing against Atlanta (relegated) Vicenza(14th place) Lecce (relegated) Going into that UEFA cup final Lazio lost 5 consecutive league matches https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997–98_S.S._Lazio_season They were an utter shambles At 23 years old CR scored 1 great goal+12 dribbles+3 Kp+2 crosses against the Elo number 2 ranked team in the world in a champions league final http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=2007-2008#club No Brazilian ever did anything remotely like that (maybe Pele in the musical...the intercontinental cup 62 vs benfica) Neymar had 1 dribble in the 2015 final vs juventus and 0 in the 2020 final How many did R9 have against Germany 2002? Probably not even 2
Orbinho Beeko Are you high on crack ? Dude stick to big soccer and stop trying to stalk/discover me on Twitter
I don't know why are nervous. OPTA remains the most rigorous, oldest and most respected organization regarding stats in football. Cristiano Ronaldo's 06/07 is overrated when we are talking about dribbles completed, he completed arguably around 2.5 dribbles per 90, that is his average in the World Cup as well and according to Beeko, this version of CR7 who played in that WC is the same version of his 06/07 season, it is already peak CR7: In the 07/08 final CR7 scored his goal with his head not via dribble (not one of his 8 dribbles looked impressive/penetrative to be honest) and he missed his PK in the final. Ronaldinho in 2005/2006 final probably had more shots, key passes and dribbles than CR7 and he looked bad. That is the level. Saying that Cristiano Ronaldo probably completed more dribbles per 90 in 07/08 than in 06/07 at least in the EPL, he was visually better too, had more impact in his team, had more goals, better perfomances against big teams. Cristiano Ronaldo EPL's 06/07 is something overrated imo. Overall I think Neymar playing without Messi at Barcelona in his first season 2013/2014 with the same age of Cristiano will had higher whoscored rating than the Portuguese did in 06/07 with his 17 goals (14 non-PK goals), 8 strict assists and 2.5-3 dribbles completed, 2 key passes in 34 matches. Cristiano Ronaldo had more or less the same stats than Hazard, but Hazard actually had more key 0.7 more key passes per match and 2 dribbles per match. Neymar with 21 years old = 8.27 whoscored rating without Messi at Barcelona. Neymar with 21-25 years old = 8.82 whoscored rating without Messi at Barcelona. My guess about whoscored rating of Cristiano Ronaldo at United. Cristiano Ronaldo 2007/2008 (more or less the same stats of 09/10, but a bit less dribbles and 1 key passes less, United a little less dominant), whoscored rating 8.30. Cristiano Ronaldo 2006/2007, whoscored rating 7.90 - 8.00. My guess about Neymar whoscoring rating if he was the focal point of Barcelona in La Liga. Neymar without Messi in 2013/2014 = 8.15 Neymar without Messi in 2014/2015 = 8.50 Neymar without Messi in 2015-2016 - peak = 8.90-9 He will score, dribble and assist more. And if Cristiano can't even overcome beating Neymar in the whoscoring rating who is below several other players in Brazil how he will overcome more famous and decisive names. You have luck that before there was no OPTA. Imagine Romário scoring 30 goals (non-PK worth more), 14 assists and actually he dribble more than you think. Imagine R9 scoring 34 goals, having 7/9 opta assists in La Liga with 5+ dribbles completed per match. and they played in a weaker teams (specially R9), he would have an average of 8.90-9 when his team would be below 7 on average. When Neymar had his 9 average in whoscored (UCL and Ligue 1), PSG had 7.15 whoscored rating. When Cristiano had his 8.60 average in the 2009/2010 (his best peak, dribbles, key passes), Real Madrid had and average of 7.30. Now imagine if you cover all leagues in all time.
That is a matter of role that R9 dribbled less, he had elite ball carriers like Rivaldo, elite ball progressors like Dunga. He played as a 9 (Neymar played more like a 9 in his last game vs Bayern too), nothing bad in fact, R9 delivered 3 goals, 3 assists and 1 pk won and scored in 6 matches until the final and he completed as a CF a good quantity of numbers as well, his impact was good. Cristiano Ronaldo at the same age completed more or less the same number of dribbles being the 'creative hub' of Portugal with 1 goal and 0 assists in 2006, the goal was against Iran. Portugal was actually quite decent in 2006. He had a disappointing performance for a player of his supposed level and role. Mbappe that is compared to R9 completed over 5.4 dribbles per 90 as a right winger and scored 4 goals. If he played as a 9 he would dribbling less like Ronaldo Luís. But Cristiano Ronaldo wasn't a CF like Ronaldo was in 1998, he was more like Mbappe. and of course R9 completed more dribbles, suffered more fouls and was more important for Inter or Barcelona, Ronaldinho also probably completed more dribbles with Barcelona than with Brazil, Rivaldo the same, Bebeto the same, most of the players shared responsability with Brazil at that time and of course he was a better finisher than Cristiano Ronaldo. R9 was a better, more talented and most impactful than Cristano. Is that even Neymar as a focal point of a team would look more like a Messi competence than Cristiano Ronaldo looked at Real Madrid. Mbappe the same if he goes to Madrid or other superteam. And look that Cristiano Ronaldo is one of my favorite players, but I hate when he starts to get overvalued and after researching more I saw that he was more of a system/era product (still a world class player) than the GOAT candidate, alpha male that the media wants day after day to make us believe that he is.
In the first 1505 minutes of the EPL 07/08 he completed 48 dribbles that 2.87 per 90. https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/cristiano-dribler-mer-enn-zlatan/66428814 If Cristiano Ronaldo in the others 1242 minutes he played he completed the same average of his 08/09 season (1.89), 26 dribbles, then he completed 101 dribbles in 06/07 EPL in 2794 minutes, that 3.25 per match. That is his max I can think of. Likely Cristiano didn't dropped from 2.87 to 1.89 between the first half and the last half of 2007/2008. If Cristiano Ronaldo averaged 2.87 dribbles in 2007/2008 in the entire season, then he completed around 2.8 dribbles in 2006/2007. So the REAL range of Cristiano Ronaldo EPL 06/07 in terms of completed dribbles is 2.35-3.25 per 90 according to OPTA. In fact he did attempted more dribbles in the EPL 07/08 than 06/07 according to GoalPoint.
You mean to tell me he completed 2.35 dribbles per 90 in the PL 2006/07 and double that amount in the champions league (4.4 dribbles per 90) Is there a precedent for someone completing twice as many dribbles in the champions league as they do in the league You are making it up you go along At 19 years old C.Ronaldo scored 3 goals and completed 4+ dribbles per 90 in Euro 2004 In the CL 06/07 he was the top dribbler and made 3 goals+5 assists from the midfield In 2 separate matches he had 10+ successful dribbles (Benfica away and Roma home) The 2007/08? 12 in the CL final vs Chelsea (inStat) And we'll calculate it If you want Overall there's 3 separate league campaigns with 3 dribbles per 90 and 1 g+a per match 2006/07,2007/08 and 2009/10 It's a notable dribbling prime Footage,numbers(per 90),Match reports all point towards this 2005-2009 When Ronaldo was completing 3 dribbles per 90 in the PL 07/08 He was also scoring 31 goals in 2747 minutes(30.5 matches) in the number one UEFA coefficient league in the world A complete goalscorer Goals and assists also against Liverpool and arsenal (Elo rank 3 and 4 in the world) With the all round to match 37 passes per 90 3.86 attempted crosses per 90 0.95 successful tackles per match If Ronaldo 07/08 is a marginally worse dribbler than his 09/10 version He was in 07/08 a better defender,better crosser, and had a higher goals per 90 rate You'd have to mad to believe hed had a way worse whoscored rating(8.3 LOL) In ball carrying and transitions from defence to attack there was and still is no one like Ronaldo 2007-2012
False. 1- This has no relevance, and if he completed 2.35 dribbles per 90 in the EPL 06/07 (the lowest guess) and 4.4 at UCL (confirmed) then he completed 2.87 dribbles per 90 in the 06/07 season and not 3 or more. 2- He didn't had 1 g+a per match in the 2006/2007 season. He had 23 goals and 13-14 strict assists (8 in the EPL, 4 or 5 in the UCL and maybe 1 more in the FA cup) in 53 matches (48.73 minutes) 3- Not sure if completed 3 dribbles in the 2008/2009. It is not confirmed. So the only confirmed season he completed at least 3 dribbles per 90 and had 1g+a per match is his 2009/2010 season. Neymar had 5 seasons in big five European leagues for example where he scored 1g+a per 90 and had 3 or more dribbles, if you are going by transfermarkt it is 6 seasons and the only he failed is his first season in Europe. It is average. Neymar had over 1 tackle per match (or per 90) in almost all seasons for Barcelona. He had around 1 Key pass more, 3 shots more and 0.5 dribbles more, more passes per match. He had a bit higher g+a, a bit less goals per match perhaps, but def more assists per match. and Real Madrid was a bit more dominant than United was as a team. So I can see why his whoscored rating being higher in 2009/2010 than in 2007/2008. He started more proportionally too. (8.54 x 8.30 seems fair) One of the best running with the ball of his generation and that is it. His passing wasn't as good. Data from World Cup (OPTA) Take on = Dribbles Progressive Dribbles = Probably the definition of 'Runs' Progressive passes and dribbles advance the ball at least 10 yards toward the opponent's goal or into their box. Peak of ball carrier/ball progressor Cristiano Ronaldo (he had this role for Portugal) 2006 Dribbles and Runs = 2.5 dribbles, 5.3 runs = 7.8 per match Progressive Passes = 3.3 per match 2010 Dribbles and Runs = 1.8 dribbles, 4.3 runs = 6.1 per match Progressive Passes = 4.3 per match That is his peak, he worsened since then. Kaka 2006 Dribbles and Runs = 2.2 dribbles, 5.6 runs = 7.8 per match Progressive Passes = 5.6 per match Ronaldinho 2006 Dribbles and runs = 2.8 dribbles, 5.4 runs = 8.2 per match Progressive Passes = 13.6 per match Neymar 2018 Dribbles and runs = 4.4 dribbles, 7.8 runs = 12.2 per match Progressive Passes = 7.8 per match Messi 2010 Dribbles and Runs = 5.4 dribbles, 5.4 runs = 10.8 per match Progressive Passes = 10 per match Messi 2014 Dribbles and Runs = 5.8 dribbles, 6.1 runs = 11.9 per match Progressive Passes = 6 per match Hazard 2018 Dribbles and Runs = 5.7 dribbles, 6.1 runs = 11.8 per match Progressive Passes = 6.9 per match Robben 2014 Dribbles and Runs = 4.4 dribbles, 8.9 runs = 13.3 per match Progressive Passes = 6.1 per match Historical Maradona 1986 Dribbles and Runs = 7.6 dribbles, 4.9 runs = 12.5 per match Progressive Passes = 10.6 per match Cruyff 1974 Dribbles and Runs = 4.9 dribbles, 10.4 runs = 15.3 per match Progressive Passes = 11.9 per match Jairzinho 1970 Dribbles and Runs = 7.8 dribbles, 13.5 runs = 21.3 per match Progressive Passes = 7.8 per match Cristiano Ronaldo was one of the best runnings with the ball of his generation, but let alone the best. Figo in 2006 was better than him for Portugal.