This is priceless. You are a renowned Ronaldo hater firmly in the Messi is god camp and you didn't know Ronaldo has scored dozens of solo goals? It's like when @leadleader was outed for judging Zidane based on Youtube clips. This is half the problem, all of you are so steadfast in your beliefs that Messi is light years ahead of Ronaldo and ranks much higher on the all-time ladder when you all have never followed Ronaldo's career first hand. You guys are like Trump voters. Educate yourself before taking to a forum to talk about shit you don't understand.
Yes, these two Sunday matches showed their current dribbling form. I judge them by it. No, your scoring analogy is not a good example in this discussion. Since scoring a hat trick vs a single goal does not necessarily mean that one player is stronger than the other. In fact, albeit that Messi scored only one goal on Sunday, outside of the goal he was way better then CR7 vs Kashima. Do you forget Messi gave two assists as well? besides in the context of "quality of play" Messi was way better than CR7 this last Sunday
Does every poster disagreeing with your CR7 infatuation become automatically a "hater"? And why the constant "ad hominem" attacks, why call us Trump-like when we are only discussing football? Relax mate, you don't have to be a prick everyday in your life you know...
Kenny isn't a hater because he disagreed, he is a hater because he's said the trolliest shit in every Ronaldo/Messi thread on Bigsoccer. He looks quite foolish admitting he needed a compilation video to realize Ronaldo has scored some of the most difficult, aesthetically pleasing, memorable and flashy solo goals in history. As for the Trump comparison, I have said for years here that Messi fans are the most delusional sect of people I've ever come across next to right-wing radicals. Maybe you should check the parallels before whining. Why do you always whinge?
That should tell you something. Messi had one goal in what his fans are calling a performance from the heavens and Ronaldo on a bad day with jet-lag half way around the world still scored a hat-trick. Assists don't equal goals, Messi's teammates could have missed, Ronaldo took the game in his own hands and directly changed the scoreline. There are also many times a year Messi has awful games and repeatedly plays errant passes, dribbles into a crowd turning over the ball, walks around depressed cause things aren't going his way, long stretches of disappearing etc.. Until Ronaldo has the latitude of critics claiming he was amazing without scoring or assisting simply because he plays a couple passes accurately or dribbles past a couple defenders the scale is tipped. When Ronaldo's chances created or deadly runs off the ball and near misses add up to dominance we will have equilibrium. Messi's performances against Germany and Chile in cup finals were not scrutinized or negatively critiqued. He was awful in both and only did a couple things right in both games. Ronaldo is never judged equally with that low of a bar for "quality" He always has a few plays a game that could have been the defining moment but he's seen as useless and minimally influential in reverse. Messi with the same or similar contribution is always somehow man of the match.
Exactly, the vs Kashima Antlers hat trick backs the widely held view that CR7 is only great against inferior teams. Chuck up another punch in CR7 record against minnows. While Messi gave a world class performance that really matters since his contributions on last Sunday were to better Barca's position on the La Liga table. That is more important than scoring hat tricks against a Kashima Antlers on the other side of the globe in a petty international competition that gets little viewing. You show me one example of CR7 scoring a similar hat trick or displaying a world class show (either scoring or assisting) vs equal opponents in a very important match that improved Madrid's position in La Liga or UCL so far this season and I will applaud you for that. Go on take your time.
I'm sorry, exactly how many Champion's League's, La Liga's, Copa Del Rey's and Cub World Cups has Espanyol won? Look how you all are trying to escalate them to Bayern status. lmao, pathetic. This season Ronaldo scored a hat-trick at the Calderon to improve Madrid's position. ("Applaud me") You are a pitiful troll, Ronaldo has scored against every team Madrid has ever played during his tenure in the Champion's League. He is the record holder for Champion's League semi-final goals, quarter-finals and is tied for finals' goals. His record against Barca, Atletico, Sevilla & Valencia is elite. He has destroyed German competition and has scored against English teams and owns Juventus recently. Once again, your side knows not of what you speak. You are cherry picking a bad run of form for Ronaldo and pretending it is reflective of his quality throughout his career. We could take a few weeks or months or isolate tournaments for Messi where he would look pedestrian. How about the "saving himself for the World Cup" portion of his career where he did nothing but walk around and vomit for four months? Now again, look at Ronaldo's bad season he's having after an injury that has ended many other players' careers and despite it all he has 16 goals and 7 assists in 19 games. He's in the mix of Golden Shoe contenders and just won a tournament and Golden Ball. How many top players now and throughout history would kill to have a record of 16 goals in 19 games? While Messi who is in the form of his life only has 22 goals and 7 assists in 19 games. Ronaldo is indeed having a bad season. What the hell are you all going to do when he recovers his 1.03 gpg form in the second half of the season? If he comes back to his usual class Madrid will easily win another Champion's League and probably the league as well (seeing they are 36 games unbeaten with Ronaldo only at 75%) putting him in prime position for a 5th Ballon D'Or . You are making the fatal mistake of counting Ronaldo out. This isn't the first time he was supposedly past it only to rebound and destroy his critics. Remember when it was 4 Ballon D'Ors to 1 and Ronaldo wouldn't finish in the top 50 all-time? How'd that turn out? Remember when "Ronaldo would never win anything with Portugal and real legends have all won something with their national team's." Look at him now! Remember when "Ronaldo could never score against Barca" while Messi was going to break the clasico record? It's now 21 goals Messi, 16 Ronaldo who has the record of scoring in 6 consecutive and has played in many less clasicos than Messi. Ronaldo has made a living off of breaking his detractors hearts.
Umm regarding Cristiano, my opinion hasnt changed much because of that video. I know he is good at piling up the goals against the little teams - just didnt know the level to which he did that. that is his strength - everybody knows that. It doesnt get Cristiano high on the GOAT scale because he is not a difference-maker aka a Messi. His peak didnt even touch Ronaldinho levels - the only thing going for him is his consistency. In order to be a difference maker, you need to be able to create something out of nothing. For that you need to be either a world-class dribbler or be good at shooting. Heading doesnt count because for headers, it is considerably dependent on the quality of the cross and quality of the defender marking you. Dribbling - well he is not good enough at the highest level. Shots - well, we know his goals per shots taken ratio is one of the worst amongst tier 1 forwards. Its the reason why he never delivers in the big matches - because he is just not good enough. Cristiano's form is a matter of mathematics - I take 20 shots at goal and hope to get a couple in. In that aspect, he probably was a bit unlucky that he didnt quite score a goal like Edder in the ucl final. Omg - if it is Cristiano who had scored such a goal - cant imagine how much the Cristiano fans would have cum in their pants. Oh and another thing - if I think Cristiano is not as good as Messi, it doesnt mean I am a hater FYI. Also, I am assuming the person who wrote below article is also a Cristiano hater. For the record, there are Messi fans, Cristiano fans and the neutrals. The writer in below article thinks like the neutrals. https://www.google.com/amp/syndicat...beyond-human-and-theres-more-to-come.amp.html
Your part in bold - when did I talk about the goals being the most difficult, aesthetically pleasing, memorable or flashy solo goals? Secondly, why does every person who thinks Cristiano is not good have to be a Messi fan? no commentator ever says Cristiano is a GOAT player - but all commentators say that about Messi- is it because they are all Messi fans aka Cristiano haters?
The fact above isn't mentioned enough, but that is precisely the reason why in La Liga, Benzema has scored 7 open-play goals out of 14 games vs. Barcelona. Compared to CR7 who has scored 5 open-play goals out of 14 games vs. Barcelona in La Liga. In other words: CR7's power in the air failed to produce more open-play goals than Benzema produced by shooting significantly less shots than CR7. (I guess you simply can't score headers from the PK spot nor from the FK spot.) Benzema also assisted 2 out of the 5 open-play goals by CR7, whereas CR7 has not assisted ANY of Benzema's 7 open-play goals. Put differently: in terms of clasico performances in the league (not the Copa del Rey), CR7 has scored only 3 open-play goals not assisted by Benzema, after 7 seasons of La Liga. CR7 is one of the most overrated fabrications of all time, without a doubt.
Umm, the very fact that you would take the bait for that weekend's performance shows the Cristiano fanboyism in full display. It has been established all across the world that Messi's performance in the Match over weekend was superior to Cristiano's performance. But somehow, Cristiano fans dont see it that way. Because their arguments are one-dimensional at best and it goes something like this. 'Player A scored X goals and Y assists in Z matches. Player B scored x1 goals and y1 assists in z1 matches. therefore, Player A is better than player B since X/Z is greater than x1/z1. ' And using above argument, yes, Cristiano did have a devastating performance over the weekend compared to that of Messi. Heck, Cristiano's perormance was three times as good as Messi's. But thats according to Cristiano fan logic. But for the rest of the world - Messi's performance was just simply better. And that performance is very relevant in this discussion as Cristiano at his peak is/was and will never be as good as Messi as a dribbler. But the bigger point is about how overrated Cristiano is because all the Cristianophiles do is keep using the one-dimensional arguments over and over again to somehow convince them that Cristiano is the better player. The joke is Cristiano probably has a shrink that tells him to keep repeating to himself that he is the world's best as the shrink might have been scared he might hurt himself. What I dont understand is what is the motivation for Cristiano fans to elevate this player to heights not within his reach.
Nobody implied to elevate Espanol to top tier club. You are assuming wrong and are overly defensive. Pound for pound Espanol is not worse off to Kashima Antlers. Both clubs were relatively easy ride for both Barca and Madrid. So I expected to see more then just scoring goals from CR7 against a minnow Kashima Antlers from a Japanese league. That said, and pay heed here to what I am saying, Messi faced an Espanol which is ranked 9th right now in La Liga (top 2 league in Europe) whilst CR7 faced a Kashima Antler from an Asian league. Not trying to be stuck up against Asian clubs but aren't you the guy that often would not pay much attention to individual performances outside Euro? Japan's J1 league is no way near the level of La Liga. And Espanol was a more difficult opponent to Kashima. Be that as it may, outside of the goals, Messi was way more impressive than CR7 last Sunday. The dribbles and nutmegs Messi pull off against 4 opponents in the PK area on two separate occasions to assist in 2 goals is by far on a different level to any thing I have seen CR7 doing this season so far. And this is the point at hand. Doesn't matter how much arguments you try to suck out of this discussion. It won't change the fact that Messi's dribble (referring back to the title of this thread) is on a different level to anything CR7 has produced so far.
I've always been amused by how @EdgarAllanPoet and @benficafan3 never get their act together; they totally sound like very similarly minded individuals both in writing-style and their conclusions, so it amuses me that they rarely or never appear to tag-team as much as you'd expect them to. And let me be clear: I absolutely do not wish to see that tag-team, but I'm just saying - it's kinda funny how 2 such similarly minded CR7 fans never seem to tag-team and/or exchange as many words as you'd expect them to.
1. Ronaldo not scoring against big teams is a myth that has been thoroughly debunked by a plethora of posters. This again is you not knowing what the hell you are talking about, in the same vein as not knowing Ronaldo has scored many solo goals. Ronaldo has scored goals and been the difference maker vs. Bayern, Barcelona, Dortmund, Juventus, Man City, United, Barcelona, Atletico, Sevilla, Valencia etc. All of these teams are far beyond the mighty Espanyol that your side is claiming Messi was magical against. Messi has padded his stats against teams like Betis, Getafe, Bate, Plzen, Celtic, Leverkusen etc. for years the same way you claim Ronaldo beats up on minnows. Ronaldo has 16 goals vs Barcelona in many less games than Messi. Messi hasn't scored vs Madrid in years and was invisible vs Atletico twice, Bayern and famously Chelsea in the Champion's League recently even losing in the quarter-final. He scored against weak teams in the Copa and was embarrassing vs. Chile in the final. He beat up on weak teams in the World Cup group and was absent in the knockout rounds and vs Germany in the final. 2. Ronaldo's goal to shot ratio is irrelevant because the shots he takes are far beyond the degree of difficulty of chances Messi takes. Messi isn't in the box on crowded corners, he doesn't shoot beyond 25 yards on set pieces, he doesn't shoot from distance or off angle with his weak foot, he doesn't attempt super long-range shots and he definitely doesn't get on the end of crosses to attempt low percentage headers. By your logic Ronaldo's assist to pass ratio is much higher than Messi's so I will logically conclude he is much more impactful and less wasteful with his passing...Right? 3. Headers absolutely count towards individual/solo brilliance as your conclusion assumes every header Ronaldo scores was from a perfectly placed cross that left him a few feet in front of goal with nothing left to do. This is more evidence you have 0.0 clue what you are talking about since in reality Ronaldo's headers are usually the result of his excellent off the ball movement, timing and uncanny heading ability. If it were a matter of passing brilliance Benzema and Bale would be scoring 15 headers a year.
You have weak interpretation skills. I have said Ronaldo was bad on the day and has been bad so far this season. My point was even with Ronaldo having a bad day he scores a hat-trick and wins his team a cup final being their best player. Ronaldo has had many games with multiple assists and dribbles but there isn't the overreaction to any one performance like this Espanyol game. I never stated Ronaldo was better than Messi on Sunday, I only turned around the logic to expose the fallacy. When Ronaldo fails to score he has always been considered to have a bad game. Regardless of whether or not he dominates his wing, makes penetrating runs through the box, plays in beautiful crosses, shoots difficult shots that either hit the post or forced a fingertip save and dribbles on long runs beating defenders. This is the disparity in judgement between these two players. When Messi plays like shit and is largely invisible with turnovers from passes off target or constantly turning the ball over by trying to dibble too much he is still said to be his team's best player even if he only sets up one shot on goal. This is the great hypocrisy of this rivalry. Some even go as far to claim he had a great defensive game when he's utter shit in attack. I've seen Ronaldo score 2 goals and give 2 assists while the announcers and pundits actually pretend Marcelo or Modric was the best player. Look how everybody tried to claim Di Maria was Madrid's best player after a couple good games in the knockout rounds when Ronaldo scored 17 goals in the Champions League and Di Maria didn't even play in the group stages. Who said Xavi, Alves or Iniesta was better than Messi the year he set the all-time record? This reality is why @leadleader is so foolish in his claim there is a media conspiracy in Ronaldo's favor..lmao Earlier in the season Ronaldo scored against Dortmund and put a perfect cross from the wing on Benzema's head who should have finished but hit the post and then Varane hit the loose ball in for a goal. The commentators didn't scream "genius" from Ronaldo like they do for Messi and no credit for the creation was given to Cristiano. These moments happen routinely. Ronaldo is never given his due for his build-up play or when he provides the final ball. When Messi plays a ball into the box that may get passed around 2 or 3 more times Messi is always seen as the originator Ronaldo has had over 20 assists twice in his career and has 15 or more in a few other season's. Ronaldo has always had assists and chances created numbers comparable or beyond the Xavi's, Iniestas, Pirlo's, Ribery's, Di Maria's etc. who are all credited with being visionary and creative playmakers. Benzema who has much less assists than Ronaldo is seen as one of if not the best link-up and passing striker. This is where you all need to reconcile your double standards. Messi scoring 50 goals and providing 20 assists can't be a super-human feat making him the greatest ever while Ronaldo scoring 55 goals and 18 assists is 'meh'.......This is hilarious and how it's been since 11/12. You can claim Messi does so much more but that's bullshit. Messi dribbling past 3 defenders at midfield and turning it over a couple yards later isn't genius or productive for his team. Messi playing a through ball between a defense that rolls out of play isn't brilliant. It's a turnover. I think there is an overreaction to this Espanyol performance because there were some shades of vintage Messi. He doesn't weave through defenses and actually produce goals that often anymore like he did years ago. If Ronaldo scored 3 free-kicks in a game looking like vintage Ronaldo and everybody went to the internet exaggerating his ability I'd feel the same way.
It's just funny stuff mate. I see you tag-teaming with @carlito86 all the time, but you're just typically never around when @EdgarAllanPoet is spewing his retarded stuff all over the place. But I guess your short response above really totally refutes any conspiracy theories.
You mean how you and lessthanjake who always rep eachother both post dissertation length ramblings on even the most trivial aspects of the game have similarities? The only thing me and @benficafan3 fan have in kind is our constant dominance and exposure of Messi fans. I guess we are Carlito and Dazer too. It's quite funny how so many people have become enlightened to your ways and see the irony and contradictions in your arguments. They all have their own "football is not about scoring goals, it's also about creating and defending them too" moments. You have made some of the most outrageous claims imaginable. Like "it's easier to stay in form for a year than three weeks". Our original argument was when you claimed Ronaldo's sex appeal makes him the overwhelming media favorite over Messi. lmao Then of course voters place Zidane above Iniesta because he is so handsome. (Two balding, pasty white guys....) Now you have devolved into there being the existence of an outright E.U., media and corporate conspiracy to elevate Ronaldo's status. LOL on asking the mods to "apprehend" @benficafan3....Did the Grand Jury indict?
You and Benficafan are by far 2 of the most retarded trolls I've seen in this forum. Minus a group of Portuguese posters of the forum, most people just avoid you - you do realize that you sound like a desperate drug addict who needs his fix asap? Do you not? You are not funny mate!! Just relax, masturbate again to a CR7 tap-in from 2 yards in, and then come back and talk to me without all that foam-at-the-mouth hatred that you're currently spewing.
But it is actually true. The guy came on the scene with a bang! And it wasn't his game per se but rather his marketable pomade greased-back hairstyle and clean shaven armpits! a complete turn off by most women I know. But appealing to most metrosexuals nowadays. LMAO!
You didn't use those adjectives, I did. The objective reality to any rational observer is Ronaldo has an extensive list of solo goals that would make any all-time highlight reel and you thought he was only capable of headers, tap-ins and penalties because you have just admitted that you have never followed Ronaldo expect through highlights. This isn't true. Ray Hudson who is the Bada Bing of commentators has repeatedly stated that Ronaldo and Messi are the two greatest ever. Cristian Vieiri has said Ronaldo and Messi are both the best ever. Ian Joy, Rob Stone, Gary Bailey, Thomas Rongen, etc. have all said the same thing on BEIN, EPSN and FOX in the U.S. I have heard Ian Darke, Derek Rae, John Champion and Martin Tyler all say Ronaldo is "the best player in the world." But to answer the question, the majority of pundits favor Messi because they created the narrative that Ronaldo is the unrelatable, inaccessible, self-obsessed rock star who's a selfish player consumed by individual glory. Messi is the humble team player who is the common man. etc... Even players and coaches former and current have bought into this story. Listen closely to them speaking at a round table and you'll hear there reasoning. It usually comes down to character perceptions.
So not true, you and lead-nobody always conflate corporations and media. Armani doesn't have a vote for Ballon D'Or.