One his best 07/08 CL performances playing as a left winger in a 4-33. (This comp only has the match highlights and not all his touches) there is also the Aston villa home performance where he played a very much deeper role and it ended up being one of his best ever games in 2007/08(3 top notch assists and one of the best goals of the premier league that season) (There are other examples I could provide of course)
Ironically, while saying perhaps Best's stats were considerably more balanced, I've posted highlights for games in which Ronaldo does provide impressive assists including winger-like crosses
Yes, post 27 I just made does hint at that Villa game being one of his subtle/creative ones! Not sure if he played deeper as such deliberately (or if Ferguson instructed this) but could be wrong - but anyway as you see it seems like Rooney was from the left nominally at least in the line-up so it was 4-3-3 in that respect and with Ronaldo certainly moving around the attack freely from his starting position to the right of Tevez.
The 2nd assist came from 40 yards out,he also had moments where he dribbled in from deep positions. I would say he was pretty much all over the pitch in that game.
He was certainly involved more than normal in a creative way I'd say, but yeah it gets confusing (especially as the formation was fluid and changeable I think) lol but I'd say in summary that he played more as outright attacker in 07/08 in general than in either 06/07 or 08/09. Perhaps that's true (in a slightly different way maybe) with Best in 67/68 as compared to other seasons too though.
An away match against Middlesbrough 07/08 ,ronaldo played left wing in a 4-4-2 formation (Scored the only and winning goal and was a serious dribbling threat throughout the game. This was played in 2007,for some reason it seems as if his agility when dribbling at full pace was slightly diminished towards the end of 07/08(his injury around March 2008 didnt help and he was pretty much playing with a knock from March-May 2008) Note: Manchester United played 4-4-2 mostly in the league and cup and switched to 4-3-3 in the CL
This confirms Rooney playing from wide (personally I do see it as 4-3-3 much much more than what is stated - 4-1-4-1 or 4-5-1 for some reason....but often Rooney-Tevez-Ronaldo is referred to as the attack for that season I know) but perhaps hints that that was more in the second part of the season than the first (hard to recall exactly how it was....but I agree for the following season 08-09 it was more as case of reverting to 4-3-3 often with CR7 as CF in the CL as opposed to the PL): http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ificing-rooney-on-road-to-success-874801.html I might be interested to see a Giggs compilation for such matches as it'd help get a grip on formation better I think, but maybe it was a progressive transition for Ronaldo from attacking winger to more of a free role forward rotating with Tevez and Rooney but starting more often than not from the right side still I think.
@PDG1978 Newcastle away 07/08 At 6:29 CR7 was playing as a hybrid winger mostly in 07/08. .IMO it wouldnt be an exaggeration to say he was the first of his kind during 2006-2009 (ie a World class winger and goalscorer in one capable of playing in a number of positions ie LM,LW,RW,SS,CF and even on occasion in 06/07 as an attacking midfielder http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features...fires-manchester-united-glory-home-and-abroad)
Yeah, Rooney does start that game mainly operating centrally, with Giggs more on the left too to be fair. As the link I posted shows that wasn't always the case, but it's fair for you to say that sometimes it was. You can see Ronaldo lurking centrally too early in the game I can see, but it's not a 4-3-3 type formation as such in that game really I don't think no.
PDG1978, I think you'd agree that CR7 is #2 of his generation. Where would you put George Best for his generation?
spain won the european championship in 1964. roma is no where near a team of caliber that had such a feat.
dude! thats such an unfair comparison. we have all the available full matches that ronaldo played in champions league and we only have a handful of complete matches of george best! how is that a fair comparison, when you say we have to compare exactly like for like???
Probably #2 behind Cruyff, but in effect for a short time I think maybe it seems like he was #1 player by talent and for a while probably effectiveness too after the main peak of Pele and before the true peak of Cruyff. If that makes sense. Perhaps the likes of Rivera and Charlton were closer than the likes of Xavi and Iniesta but I guess it's debateable, and in certain environments Xaviesta even seemed superior to Messi I suppose (but hard to make that case overall or it'd be very much against concensus if someone did). Sorry if I over-posted in this thread today! I thought we should have things correct, but anyway between us me and Carlito maybe got the picture about right. It was the season at United when generally he played most as attacker, and most with a free (to roam and from defensive duties) role too I think, but at times maybe it was more 4-2-3-1 than 4-3-3 then or 4-4-2 but with a more attacking right/left winger in him than the player on the other side. Maybe there was even variation between an obvious 4-3-3 and in some away fixtures something at least reasonable to call a 4-1-4-1 but it's hard to recall from memory. The attacking trio of him, Rooney and Tevez was talked about as a trio though and we can see that at least at times they really were a front 3 (and the Rooney link confirms it - even slightly contradicting itself by saying that and talking about interchanging positions, but then mentioning 4-5-1....arguably/possibly lol!). EDIT If Pele is not in Best's generation then Charlton shouldn't be either arguably (even if the peaks of Best and Charlton were more concurrent possibly or over-lapped, unless someone takes the view that Pele peaked in 1970 but I tend to be of the view that he was too far past his physical best in terms of agility etc and no longer the prolific scorer so it looks unlikely even if he couldn't stay fit in the 1962 and 1966 WC's). Beckenbauer is closer by birth date, but his relative late blooming (as libero, despite good form as shown in 1966 WC ofc) combined with Best's early-ish decline means they feel in a different generation if anything (but Cruyff and Beckenbauer don't lol!).
I primarily meant 'generation' by birth date. So the likes of Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Best, Rivelino, Tostao, Muller are all the same generation. It's also obvious that e.g. Beckenbauer and Cruijff were already world class as young players. For a forward/midfielder as Cruijff you only have to look at consistent production against top teams as Spain, Hungary, Liverpool, Real Madrid etcetera (and remember: he has only 7 penalties in full career, if you include the famous one-two penalty too). That the team sometimes lost, like Best's teams, doesn't change it. http://www.miroirdufootball.com/?p=2040 http://journaux-collection.com/phototag.php?ref=643987-1.jpg
Yes, I think maybe second best if looking at it like that but not thinking of the whole career (in which case behind Beckenbauer too and the argument might be made for others but I guess I would personally still be inclined to weigh peak heavily). Sorry, didn't mean to suggest they weren't world class at a young age at all, no.
I accept its your opinion. But its ridiculous to declare that is "undeniable fact" when there is no way to accurately quantify this question. Even if we go with raw totals of goals scored over career, based on that other thread, Cristiano is only at No.10 all time. Its really just your subjective opinion that he is "undeniably" top 5 at worst. If we were selecting all time XI and our life depended on the result I can name a host of other goal scorers I am picking before Cristiano, including Ronaldo, Romario, Van Basten, Messi, Suarez, Gerd Muller, Puskas, Zico and Pele and Maradona. By all accounts Arsenio Erico was ever bit as good as Cristiano as well. If you pick Cristiano over any of those then fair enough, thats your opinion. I can respect your opinion but I can't respect people insisting their opinion is the one true correct way to view things when there are many dimensions and variables and no one statistic captures the total essence. There is no possible way for you to assert this when everyone knows assists and chances created were not collected as statistics back in Best's day and not enough footage is available for a company like Opta to go back and re-calculate. This is just a disingenuous statement. This is just appeal to authority. Its logically fallacious and worthless as a means of proving much. There are always numerous reasons for people to make claims they make - nationality, personal preference, mates, family friends, politics, etc. Many greats routinely change their minds as one of those older threads on Super Ballon voting showed. Also just because someone played doesn't mean they are most perceptive or best knowledge on the game. Hence why some great players are bad managers or bad tv commentators while people who never played at a high level like Mourinho can be top managers. That's not entirely accurate. First there is enough footage available to make some judgements. For instance from everything I have seen of Best he is simply a player I would pick before Cristiano any time in a schoolyard pick draft. He is also someone that is more exciting for me to watch than Cristiano and I would be more afraid of him as an opponent than Cristiano. Not sure why you even started such a polemic thread, it just seems like you want to big up your modern favorite at the expense of attempting to tear down a historical legend.
Not saying I agree with all points but compliments to @overmars2001 for the good points/observations made on this page and the previous page. They are concise and clear.
Two or three days ago I asked for someone to give context of ManU 68 season in order to at least have a better idea on the impressiveness of Best's season. So since nobody seems to care to provide this information I've taken upon myself to do similar analysis to the one we did with Ronaldinho's season which for some reason seemed to get better every year that passes as I had the feeling that Best's season might be similar. Disclaimer; I happen to believe English fans have tendency of immortalizing performances of their club heroes and as such I have the same feeling this might be one of those cases. Note that with limited footage available for Best I honestly rate him very high but doubt if the views of the people here are objective as I already said I believe most of us never saw Best playing live. Note that this info excludes assists as they were not really recorded during those years. The below information is just to provide guidance rather than using vague arguments such as "it is clear player X was better" without backing up the argument. To those with more information can perhaps tell us how strong certain teams were during the said season. European Cup; ManU vs Hibernian (4-0) 0 goals for Best 2nd round Sarajevo 1 goal in 2 games 1/4 final Gornik Zabre 0 goals in 2 games Semis - Real Madrid 1 goal in 4-3 aggregate Final - Benfica 1 goal in extra time 4-1 win FA Cup; Knocked out in 3rd round by Spurs 1 goal Performance in the league; Scored vs. Tottenham (3) finished 7th Liverpool (3) finished 3rd Coventry (1) relegated Nottingham (1) 11th West Brom (2) 8th Wolves (2) 17th Westham (1) 12th Sheffield (3) 21st or 19th one or two Sheffields relegated Burnley (1) 14th Arsenal (1) 9th Mancity (1) champions Stoke (1) 18th relegated Fulham (3) last relegated Southampton (1) 16th Newcastle (3) 10th Sunderland (1) 15th @carlito can perhaps do the same for CR7 07/08 season.
2007/08 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE GROUP STAGE Man u vs sporting Lisbon 1-0(away) Ronaldo scores 1 goal Man u vs roma 1-0(home) Ronaldo scores 0 goals Man u vs dynamo kiev(away)4-2 Ronaldo scores 2 goals and 1 pre assist Pre assist at 0:56-01:07 Man u vs dynamo kiev(home)4-0 Ronaldo scores 1 goal and 1 pre assist Pre assist at 4:00-4:13 Man u vs sporting Lisbon(home) 2-1 Ronaldo scores 1 goal and 1 wide assist Wide assist at 2:27-2:45 Manchester United vs roma(away)1-1 Ronaldo not in squad CHAMPIONS LEAGUE KNOCKOUT STAGE Round of 16 Man u vs lyon(away) 1-1 Ronaldo scores 0 goals man u vs lyon(home) 1-0 Ronaldo scores 1 goal Quarter final Man u vs roma(away) 2-0 Ronaldo scores 1 goal man vs roma(home) Ronaldo is kept on the bench for the entire match Semi final man u vs Barcelona(away) 0-0 Man u vs Barcelona (home) 1-0 Ronaldo scores 0 goals and 0 assists over both legs Final man u vs Chelsea 1-1 Ronaldo scores 1 goal and United win 6-5 on penalties http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cris...07&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= conclusion: Manchester United score 19 goals in the 2007/08 champions league campaign with c.Ronaldo being directly involved in 11 goals For his performance in the 2007/08 CL he won: the uefa club forward of the year uefa club footballer of the year and the fans man of the match in the champions league final https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_Ronaldo Will move onto his premier league statistics in the next post(and fa cup)
2007/08 FA cup Man u vs Aston villa(away) 2-0 Ronaldo scores 1 goal and 1 wide assist Wide assist at 8:02-8:10 Note: if a wide assist is recorded by transfermarket I will not post the match comp, if it is(recorded) then you can refer to the link and check it yourself Man u vs Tottenham 3-1(home) Ronaldo scores 2 goals Man u vs arsenal 4-0 Ronaldo not in the squad final Manchester United lose 1-0 to Portsmouth http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cris...07&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=
Going back to the formation thing - I do think as Carlito pointed out United played at times more with two up front, and at times more with a 4-1-4-1 even than I might initially have recalled. Though probably still with CR7 goal focused and probably moreso in home games coming infield off the ball quite a bit etc (and sometimes playing CF or one of two strikers) and then increasingly at the end of the season maybe he was outright wing/free forward moreso. But I think it seems also true that in 67/68 United played a 4-2-4 (or attacking 4-4-2 we could see it as), if looking at some highlights - Law or Best himself occasionally for example taking an inside forward (SS, or arguably outright AM as opposed to attacking CM) position/role. The 4-3-3 was used vs Benfica (maybe more of a proper back 4 too, as in the 4-2-4 Stiles would be like an old fashioned half back more than centre-back maybe) and maybe some other times but I guess Busby might even have remembered about playing Benfica in 1966 as well as have considered Eusebio might need extra attention. And Law was unavailable for the 1968 Final I suppose too. Whether the roles of Best and on that day Aston would change hugely I'm not sure, but they'd have only one main attacker in the centre as opposed to two anyway in that system. Maybe the link below helps (don't know if Dazer used it too perhaps, but I remembered about it and refreshed my memory about how little it seems they actually played 4-3-3 that season): http://www.stretfordend.co.uk/seasons/season1968.html When Sadler is listed in the number 10 shirt (which would normally be taken by inside forward, perhaps centre forward or maybe midfielder....yet he was a centre-back) then it's probably 4-3-3 but there aren't many examples outside of the Final and often two of Law/Herd/Kidd/Best are taking shirts 8 and 10. Best normally played wearing 7 and sometimes 11 that season though, but had a spell wearing 10 it seems and including vs Sarajevo in the European Cup. As for assists (which are nececessary to have a real good attempt at a statistical comparison especially bearing in mind the 'normal' 4-2-4/4-4-2 formation) maybe the best hope would be newspaper reports (as used on the Cruyff/Di Stefano/Zidane thread) - they are referred to on that page I linked about 50 of Best's games but though that 68/69 Rapid Vienna match analysis was viewable I don't think all the sections were and anyway it'd not cover a big proportion of 67/68 games I don't think. He assisted vs Gornik Zabre (for the own goal) and away in Real Madrid as far as 67/68 European Cup matches go anyway (not saying no others, but definitely them as can be seen). Maybe that helps a bit, but hard to get a full understanding of his 67/68 season really.
It was an amazing reminder to see that when the Champions League existed 20 years UEFA published a list of "greatest Champions League players". It wasn't a poll or survey but done by Champions Magazine on behalf of the UEFA and peer-reviewed by UEFA (glossaries in some magazine issues actually note this). Zidane was 1st, Messi 2nd, Maldini 3rd, Xavi 4th, Raul 5th, Giggs 6th, Seedorf 7th, Figo 8th, Eto'o 9th, Gerrard 10th (Gerrard 10th???!!!wtf!!!), Iniesta 11th.... Cristiano Ronaldo 30th. Bizarre! An administrators gaffe and snub that's second only to Blatter his "commander" antics. I couldn't believe my eyes.
Pele( in 2009 ) "Cristiano Ronaldo reminds me so much of a player who I thought was brilliant- George Best. He is the closest player I've seen to george best since he was at his peak due to the way he runs with the ball at speed right or left with such incredible skill I love watching cristiano Ronaldo he is an incredibly talented individual" http://m.goal.com/s/en/news/9/english-football/2009/06/28/1350936/cristiano-ronaldo-reminds-me-of-george-best-pele?utm_referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/
Cristiano is the greatest goalscorer of all time. It is not even close, there is no competition or any player in his tier. Legend.
Reminds me of the 2006 Ballon d'Or: Zidane in 5th place, despite the known fact that Zidane wasn't even a Top 10 player, let alone one of the Top 5 players in the world - above Pirlo, Kaka, Deco, Eto'o, etc. (The FIFA award 2006 even included Zidane as the 2nd best player in the world, which was quite embarrassing.) Overall, I think that individual awards are inherently irrational, because of the inevitable factor that finances and popularity play.