Cristiano ronaldo vs alfredo di stefano who is the greatest Real Madrid player of all time

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by carlito86, Jul 10, 2018.

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Who is the greatest player in real madrid's history

Poll closed Apr 5, 2021.
  1. Cristiano ronaldo

    6 vote(s)
    27.3%
  2. Alfredo di stefano

    16 vote(s)
    72.7%
  3. Raul

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Pukas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Zidane

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Gento

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    In the aftermath of the news that ronaldo has left Real Madrid I think now would be the appropriate time to discuss his Real Madrid legacy.
    Alfredo di stefano led Real Madrid to 5 consecutive European cups when the competition was still in its infancy,multiple league titles and was by all accounts a very complete football arguably the most complete footballer of all time

    Ronaldo is ronaldo.we have all(I'm assuming)watched his career very closely and not much needs to be said.he has propelled Real madrid to arguably it's greatest era and solidified their position as an unequalled European superclub.
    Ronaldo cannot (especially during his prime)be purely defined by stats but i his statistics as a Real Madrid player are completely outrageous and deserve a mention

    450 goals+131 assists in 439 games
    Over a goal a game ratio for 9 years,not to mention his assists ,contribution to build up play via chances created,dribbling in his early Real madrid career etc
    I would appreciate opinions from posters who are familiar with di stefanos career ,his ability and how he was viewed during his playing career

    Note:
    Lionel messi isn't relevant to this discussion so would appreciate if he isn't discussed to prevent this thread from becoming another ronaldo vs messi wankfest
     
  2. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Why can't they both be the greatest?
     
  3. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Di Stefano still.

    He won more with the team than CRonaldo, playing a huge part in making the club one of the first continental powerhouses.
     
  4. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    winning more titles is not really an argument
    Di stefano's Real Madrid did not have to directly compete against an all time great club side playing in the same league (Barcelona 2008-2011)Preventing ronaldo from winning many more league titles than he perhaps could've (09/10 and 14/15 being the best examples where the lost the league by 1-3 points)

    Ronaldo propelled Real Madrid to 4 cl titles being the most decisive player in every single title winning campaign.
    Di stefano won 5 on the trot and was more impressive in European cup finals but how impressive was the opposition he played.

    Was di stefano a more aesthetically pleasing ,or statistically superior player to cristiano ronaldo in Real Madrid and is their any proof to substantiate this.
    If and when you choose to reply can provide verifiable sources to prove your point.
     
  5. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    Barcelona had a great selection during that period, especially from 57 onwards. But they misused Millonarios superstar (after Di Stefano) Villaverde and Kocsis. If I recall correctly, the alltime Barcelona team does feature Kubala on the right, which could have implied this W:
    Evaristo-Suarez-Kocsis-Villaverde-Kubala
     
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  6. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yes, Barcelona was certainly very competitive back then, as you said.

    ADS Madrid was the original Galacticos though. A team with ADS, Puskas, and Gento was the equivalent of having Zidane, Ronaldo, and Figo, except it actually worked! (TBF, back then the game was more player-quality-centric).
     
  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Except that ADS was a vastly superior player to zidane in every conceivable facet of the game,gento more impressive than figo(Real Madrid version) and post peak puskas arguably better than post peak r9(certainly statistically and big game input)although r9 in his 1st two seasons was probably the better dribbler
     
  8. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yes, which is why it wasn't so surprising they did so well. They also had Jose Santamaria, a rock in their defense. Their galacticos transfer strategy was very aggressive. Raymond Kopa won Ballon D'or Bronze Ball in 1956 after leading Reims to the EC final against Madrid. Madrid bought him the season after, where he would go on to win 3 ECs (one against his former club) and a Ballon D'or.
     
  9. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I understand the extenuating circumstances perfectly, but in CRonaldo's case, his performances were also a part of the issue in some cases. For instance in 14/15 wherein RM's loss in the 2nd clasico in the league decided the title, and can be attributed to CRonaldo (along with Benzema) not being as clinical as needed, to stave off a defeat, although he did score one goal.

    Ultimately there is a world of difference in winning 8 league titles in 11 seasons vs winning 2 in 9 seasons, since Barcelona has not been so great 2013/14 onwards, which is for 5 of CRonaldo's 9 seasons.

    ADS also played against a great Barcelona team btw, the only difference was that he helped RM in dominating that team to a degree wherein they are now not considered so great. A similar fate would have awaited this RM side if they had not been able to win as many CLs as they won in the past 5 years.


    Di Stefano also scored in each of those European Cup campaigns, in the semi final ties that he appeared in during those 5 successful campaigns. His RM team faced all of AC Milan, Manchester United, Atletico Madrid and Barcelona, in four of those 5 SF ties, so the competition was decent, even outside the finals that RM won.

    Furthermore, travelling away and coming back with a result was a lot more difficult in ADS' day with teams not being used to doing so at all. So maintaining that streak was really impressive, as one bad home result could mean an end to your team's chances.


    Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder, so I don't want to go into that. Although I personally don't find CRonaldo greatly pleasing from an aesthetic perspective. I think he is reasonably good on that regard, but not exceedingly special. I feel the same about ADS btw.

    Statistically, CRonaldo has definitely been unquestionably better, but then he joined RM at a younger age (24) and moved off before seeing a substantial drop in his gpg due to age. ADS joined as a 27 year old in an era wherein medical treatment was not quite so good and stayed till he was almost 38 i.e. well past a regular footballer's prime.

    Anyway, personal statistics is only one measure and definitely not the most important to judge a player's greatness for a team like Real Madrid. As a player can have great stats and be well loved for that, but not bring in as much silverware and thus still leave the fans wanting more, to be called the greatest in the history of a club as big as Real Madrid.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Let's wait for the next few years but right now I say Cristiano Ronaldo was the more impactful Real Madrid player.
     
  11. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    Cutting inside from the wing and taking longshots, you're in a sense compromising space and possession.
    Another RM player who did both in a different way (he didn't move that much) was Puskas. He was also a good looking guy, unlike the balding ADS.
    The latter however moved a lot and recycled a lot of possession, thus creating space and possession. He did not take many shots but was pretty deadly in front of goal.
    Therefore a comparison with Puskas might be of interest.
     
  12. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Young Di Stefano looked like James Dean.
     

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  13. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Pretty sure none of us over here have watched many Di Stefano games since most of the footages doesn’t really exist. I still rank him as a better RM player than Ronaldo though.
     
  14. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Zidane shouldn’t even be there in that poll tbh. Modric and Kroos are greater RM players than ZZ ever was.
     
  15. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I'm sure you do
     
  16. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    ADS just about edges it for me because of his league domination as well as the 5x EC. CR7 can compete on the UCL front, but he's lacking the league titles to truly take the crown from ADS perhaps.

    ADS also spent longer at Real Madrid, and that should count for something, even if it's just a minor point.
     
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Toni Kroos a greater Real Madrid legend then zidane LOL
    Zidane was MVP of real madrids 9th European cup title in 01/02.just when was Toni kroos a top 2 undisputed player of any of real madrids last 4 cl winning campaign
    Zidane was simply put a more impactful player,a vastly superior dribbler,better goalscorer and equal playmaker (if not better-slightly)

    A thread titled zidane vs iniesta vs modric (club only)would be a very interesting discussion.imo they are VERY close but zidane surpassed them at intl level

    Iniesta 'career is essentially finished but if modric can win the World Cup putting on a world class (not necessarily phenomenal)performance in the final then he can cement his position is THE greatest midfielder of this era above iniesta

    Note:
    IMO A top 50 all time slot is available for Luca modric if he can lead his country to wc victory.real madrids 2nd greatest ever team needs more than 1 representative in the all time ranking
     
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  18. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Except Zidane’s international career ain’t greater than Iniesta’s and Modric’s WC performance this year with a weaker team compared to 98 and 00 France is more impressive than anything Zidane did. Zidane’s international career is overrated.
     
  19. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Yes I agree everyone is overrated except players affiliated with Barcelona
    (I.e. Messi,Lionel,la pulga,Xavi,some guy called iniesta and of course your namesake Johan cruyff)
     
  20. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Your sarcasm is also overrated:ROFLMAO:. Never even remotely implied that all Real or non-Barca players are overrated. Zidane is overrated and many people do agree. His lucky headers and being invisible in that 2006 WC final(barring that penalty) is not really impressive at all. Hell if I was that biased then I wouldn’t have praised Kroos or Modric *smh*. Modric is a greater RM player than ZZ ever was and if you disagree then you’re probably living in a fantasy.
     
  21. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    So you are basically saying headers are inherently lucky goals and not a result or product of good positioning and heading technique?
    Zidane was not absent in the 06 World Cup final,in addition to scoring a panenka penalty against arguably the greatest goal keeper of all time he was very much involved in france's every attack

    Bottom line is zidane performed at a elite world class level in 3 major international tournaments.
    And scattered across those tournaments he had all time legendary performances that neither modric or iniesta have equalled
    His performance vs Brazil 98
    Brazil 06
    And Portugal 2000 are a whole cut above anything the aforementioned players have shown in their respective international careers (the jury is still out on modric

    If you wasn't so driven by your undying love for FC Barcelona and your hatred for Real Madrid you would know that zidane was during his Real Madrid playing career viewed as the undisputed star player of the galacticos era
    This was a view shared by his own teammates,pundits/commentators/football experts and fans (during the relevant time period -not youtube fans that emerged post 2006)

    Now there are a gazillion threads on this forum discussing how allegedly overrated zidane was as a player,how lucky he was and how overrated he is as a manager.
    I think your views would be more suited for those threads.this is about ADS and CR7
    Not about how modric,iniesta,kroos ...Henderson are better than zidane

    Note:
    BTW I thought it was appropriate to attach zidanes name to the poll primarily because he is a unanimous top 5 player in real madrids history (only ADS,CR7 and arguably puskas were better)
    A case could be made for Raul but only because he spent 16 years at the club and was their previous record goalscorer,he was during his prime an inferior player to a host of other Madrid players i.e. R9,hugoal,gento,redondo,Emilio butragueno etc are but a few players who reached a higher peak in a Madrid shirt
     
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  22. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #22 leadleader, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    Zidane in his Madrid days was uniquely impressive in terms of his entertainment value, but in the areas that I value the most, I think that Zidane was better for longer at Juventus. Honestly, Luka Modric probably has been a better Real Madrid player than Zidane was. Moreover, Di Stefano played too long ago for my liking, tactics weren't very good at the time, not to mention the fact that Di Stefano did not played against a Liga rival as amazing as Lio Messi, not to mention that Di Stefano also did not played against a Liga rival as amazing as Barcelona was in the 2008-2017 era. All things considered, my vote was an easy decision: Cristiano Ronaldo.

    And also worth noting: Ronaldo is the best Real Madrid player I have watched, but Ronaldo is not competing against prime Messi, prime Ronaldinho, prime Luis Figo, prime Johan Cruyff, prime Ronaldo Brazil -- all of which were better than Zidane or Raul were at Real Madrid.
     
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  23. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Carlito, while I shared my views above on the topic of the comparison of this thread, they were based more on my personal criteria for rating a player as the greatest ever for a club team.

    Would be interesting to know what your criteria are for a player being labelled as greatest ever for a club team, and how each of CRonaldo and ADS measure up to the same during the periods that they featured for Real Madrid.

    Off topic -

    P.S. What do you think of Modric's chances of winning the BdO assuming that Croatia wins the WC? Also, if he does end up winning the BdO and breaking the duopoly, would it place him above Xavi/Iniesta who were not able to do so in 2010 when both CRonaldo and Messi had comparatively weaker seasons as opposed to this year?

    P.P.S Regarding Zidane, after his exceedingly successful stint as an assistant and head coach for the senior team, his contribution and legacy for Real Madrid has become a bit more difficult judge IMHO. Considering that as a player, he and the Galacticos I project was quite successful so long as Real Madrid had a great coach at the helm (Del Bosque) along with a balanced squad.
     
  24. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    #24 ko242, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    1st of all, I have seen so many valuable post in this thread that I really see no need to post anything. Very good post from everyone so far. For what it's worth I won't go long into explanation because so much has already been said. I do plan to buy a book on di Stefano unfortunately there aren't too many videos from di stefanos day (but very impressed with what I've seen).
    It could go either way. Personally I would choose Di Stefano. But I could easily see myself changing to ronaldo. This is like comparing Pele vs Maradona. I don't think there will ever be a clear choice.
    Great choice of thread @carlito86

    As far as the international career of modric and Zidane, I don't think zidanes 98 contribution was that's great as far as epic world cups go. I think most people would agree with that. His outstanding performance was against Brazil in the final even outside his 2 goals. Other than that, it wasn't that great. Wasn't there against Paraguay, in an extremely tough R16 match. Wasn't the best player against Croatia in the semifinal. And played good against Italy in QF but not great or decisive in my opinion. France won their toughest game in the group stage without Zidane. Euro 2000 was pretty good for Zidane. Against Spain and Portugal he played very well. Even against Denmark in the group stages. World Cup 2006 he played very good in the knockout stages. Modric' World Cup 2018 exclusively judging it from a productive perspective (aesthetics aside) is at least just as good as any of Zidane's tournaments from beginning to end, and may be better depending on the finals of this World Cup goes. However, modric would need to do something similar in a euro to come close to compare to Zidane's international career.
     
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  25. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    For a long time time one of the arguments held against cristiano was that he wasn't the best player on a legendary club side (like cruyff for Ajax,messi for Barcelona,van basten for Milan,ADS for Madrid,becenbaur for bayern)
    We can now positively say that this Real Madrid side that has won 4 champions league titles in 5 years is a top 10 club side in history and cristiano ronaldo was their greatest player which should go along way in defining his overall legacy

    ADS is the more complete player but completeness doesn't necessarily denote superiority.cristiano at real Real Madrid was a statistical anomaly whose raw stats can only be matched by 2 other players in football history (pele and messi)

    As for Luca modric winning the BD this year I would say it puts him on equal footing with Xavi/iniesta not above.dont forget messi and cristiano were in their absolute primes and only 5-6 players in football history would've had a legitimate chance of competing in those years (the years during which Xavi/iniesta regularly made the bd podium)

    If Luca modric puts on a legendary performance against France in the final (whether he wins or doesnt) he will probably marginally outrank them for accomplishing something they weren't able to despite playing for a vastly superior NT
     
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