Cristiano Ronaldo: How overrated is his post-2015 legacy ?? Video analysis and discussion thread.

Except thats an illusion created by Reals success. If his team was eliminated in any of his anonymous performances, you wouldnt be sayin that right now. And thats the overrated part.

2016-2018 threepeat seasons:

2 out of 3 finals Cristiano was a complete anonymous. And in that one game against Juve he was being lucky for the first goal (deflection) and the fact Real as a team ran over Juve in the second half. Absolutely doesnt live up to the perceived clutch standards.

He was also, in 4 out of 5 semi final games, a spectator as well.
City in 2016, Atleti away 2017 and both games vs Bayern 2018. Only one game out of 8 lives up to the description you are refering to. 12.5%. Milito had more in just one successful ucl season.

And 6 out of 8 games in which "more clutch than ever" Ronaldo did nothing. Btw, these are the biggest games, not 1/4 finals.

Now i do think this, more experienced than ever, version of Cristiano is clutch, more so than any previous version, but not to the extand that would make him any more valuable than Cristiano in his phyiscal prime. The fact ronaldo didnt have as much big game moments prior to the post 2016 run, is merely of situational nature (aka luck on team level) rather than him being a small game player before.

 

Hence why I didn't mention them in my post, didn't I?

I did to make the point that only the strikers Lucas and R9 are relevant in a debate about who is GOAT in UCL finals based on "scoring prowess". Cause it, in principle, their position as centre-forwards gives them an advantage over midfieldrs/playmakers who have to play deep and run twice as much as a centre-forward

apples vs apples, oranges vs oranges

Unless you are making a point on GOAT "players" in UCL finals, rather than forwards vs midfielders.

If it was "players" overall, then I have no objection to your point.

I quote you: "If you carried on reading you wouldve seen me praise ronaldinho(for his great technical goal against chelsea and his technique overall)"

But there ain't nowone praising Ronaldinho anywhere in that post. And if they did in later posts then It would be irrelevant to my post since it came after my post.

Funny to see how you always end your responds to me in these lines. I have nothing to say. Any descent members reading your posts in any thread would have noticed how disingenuous you can be.

 

I feel as if im debating with a guy who holds multiple personalities
Have you not repeatedly argued that CR won the 2017 ballon dor on the basis of a few games(6 CL games give or take)

Helping ronaldo score 5 open play goals in his last 3 la liga games did not swing the balance in his favour in fact not 1 iota
Again the onus is on you to provide evidence that real madrid or ronaldo cared about him scoring less open play goals morata by round 35
Bearing in mind that including penalties(which he values equally) he had by round 35 more goals in the league than morata

Penalties,open play goals,goals with his knee(psg) are worth the same
His modus operandi is to score by any means possible and is why he is the consumate professional

Wanking over who scored more open play goals is for statisticians,arm chair analysts and insufferable fanboys
You want your precious source
"I see football as a mission: go to the field, win, make me better," he said.

"Those moments when I went out on to the field thinking: 'I'm going to dribble!' Honestly, I don't have those moments anymore.

"There is an additional pressure. People are always judging: 'It's over already. He's 33, 34 or 35 years old, he should stop'. And you want to surprise people

If he could win the pichichi and 80% of his goals were penalties he would do it
Call him driven,selfish,ego centric it got him 700 official goals

Im going to word this bluntly and not mince my words
it is hard to keep calm and collective standing in front a wall of deception and blatant lies

Milan 2006 was ranked by forbes as the 5th most valuable club in the world
With the 5th highest generated revenue in europe
Only a handful of teams could compete with milans buying power at that time
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...o-build-the-future-but-could-it-be-worse/amp/

Liverpool FC is completely irrelevant here and so is real madrid 16/17
Milan 04-07 wasnt competiting against teams superteams
they were in fact competing against teams the overwhelming majority of whom could not compete with them(financially)

Fact is it has nothing to do with buying or spending power
Carlo ancelloti is a champions league specialist and his teams that have done well in europe have always done so at the expense of league results
If you have examples that contradict this then we can discuss but do not lie and invent

Ronaldo converted 11 out of 12 penalties in 11/12 la liga
In fact his penalty conversion rate up to 2015 was one of the highest ever (90% which is elite territory similar to maradona and just beneath the likes of baggio and li tissier
Comparing only volume penalty takers of course(40+) not a low sample size as 1 season
Moron

What is ironic is the most insufferable messi fanboy will say ronaldo is overrated and rubbish at everything except penalties and tapins

Your hatred and in fact delusions knows no bounds that you in fact flat out deny ronaldo has ever been good at penalties

I mean seriously
Badabing wouldnt even deny this

 

Surely they have access to all advanced statistics. But it's evident that they put emphasis on some and not the other.
This is a thread about post 2015 Ronaldo being overrated not whether he deserved his Ballon d'Or.
Where in my post did I stated about injustice? Infact I ridiculed Modric's Ballon d'Or earlier. Messi had no chance in 16/17 and I think I have already explained why.

Ronaldo wasn't the best player of UCL 09/10. No player has ever been considered to be best on account of group stage performances only. I think you know that and still playing devil's advocate. Did he deserved to be ranked 6th? Of course not. Neither did Messi in 17/18

Which brings me to the question what is the criteria for Ballon d'Or exactly? It is too perplexing for me to comprehend

 

The criteria of the ballon dor has since its inception always been inconsistent(since the inaugural award placing john charles in 3rd who did not deserve it but was given it as a career achievement award-at 40 years old)



There are blatant examples of double standards that will never and cant ever explain or justify such as iniestas 2010 runner up position award

Show me 1 example in the history of this game where a player was rated 205th best player in the CL
20th best in his domestic league
( castrol was generous ranking him 50th best player in 2009/10)
This same player was a ballon dor runner up ahead of ronaldo(literally on the basis of 1 goal against the netherlands)


The ballon dor criteria has never been consistent
Not in the era of R9(how did he finish 3rd in the 98 ballon dor when he was rated by some sources as the best player in serie A,the best player in european competitions,the best player in the world cup)

Is it possible to have a clean sweep of all individual awards during a world cup year and still lose the ballon dor (to zidane)


The question being asked is the wrong one
It shouldnt be did CR deserve all his 5 ballon dors

It should be
Is a player of his calibre worth 5 ballon dors?
You think platini,van basten,zidane,charlton,best etc were on the same planet as him in 2011 or 2012?

110 goals+50 assists/pre assists in 2 consecutive club seasons
That is a direct involvement of 170-180 goals in 2 seasons(what superteams real madrid or barcelona score in a single season)
That is unreal

And whats even more unreal is messi just in 2011 + 2012 calendar years surpassed the career output of zinedine zidane(15+ years career)

 

Thats a good question. In league format, CR7 06-12 all day, every day.
In CL format, CR7 14-present.
CL is a completely different game as consistency is not emphasized. Its more about moments here and there.
But you got my thinking correct

 

And that's exactly what I'm talking about.
One of the masses of people that tries to downplay those who provide depth and reason to arguments by saying things like ''relax". Because your mind cant keep up with such train of thought. So to keep yourself from looking like you lack depth you tell others to relax.
But I don't blame you. Its human nature.

You, @benficafan3 belong on an Instagram or a youtube comment section.

 

Even then, it's not obvious that the difference between two different versions of CR7 is the cause of Madrid's difference in fortune.

It could simply be that Madrid of 13-present was a better UCL team than Madrid of 2010-2013. If a 25 year old CR7 was playing between 2016-2018, would he have done so much worse in the UCL, and so much better in the La Liga?

Why should we attribute the change to the evolution of one man: CR7, and not to the evolution of the squad, which is 20-ish players?

 

I'm also including CR7 at Man U. When he won 3 leagues in a row and a champions league.

Actually, @poetgooner good point! Almost suffered of short term memory loss.
@carlito86 ! Lets not forget about CR7 in CL for Manchester United!! CR7 had some big CL moments. And he was clearly a better all round player than CR7 14-present

@poetgooner it's never so simple to compare 2 teams as well. But I do think that Madrid 10-12 was a top, top team. The Madrid team from 12-13 was pretty good as well. So was 13-14.
All in all, CR7 movement of the ball 14-present is certainly better than before as far as poaching is concerned. Not necessarily long runs.
But you may be right.

 

I like your posts, leadleader, but I have a curiosity.
How would you rank Cristiano Ronaldo's best seasons for the worst season?

I would like to hear your opinion on this, if possible on a specific thread with videos as well.

 

Madrid 2010-2012 was indeed a very good team. It could have won the UCL in a different era. The early 2010s was pretty stacked in terms of UCL. Chelsea was the only 'meh' UCL winner. Inter, Barcelona, and Bayern were all elite sides who were very deserving of their titles.

 

People should stop sayin Ancelotti is a champions league specialist.

 

People go on and on about how powerful Madrid of the last three years were while completely disregarding the numerous referee decisions which went in their favor.




Now I know Pep's Barca also had a similar amount of ref decisions go their way; however, at least they truly dominated the opposition and had an aura of invincibility to go along with it...

 

You should relax as well. I’m not a new member of this forum, and you have complimented me more times than I count regarding my posts, as has virtually everyone else that has been here for years, including even Leadleader. So I’m not sure where this manner of speaking is coming from.

But whatever the source of your newfound demeanor is, try to avoid personal attacks moving forward. And if you continue with them, I hope you gain some self awareness before you attempt to summarize a person in a couple sentences because those attacks say a lot more about you than they do about me.

 

you wonder why no one takes you seriously
ronaldo did not even play vs milan
he was injured home and away

his performance is unimpressive on video?
post the video if you have any credibility


liars like you make my skin crawl(and do not come back and say this was a genuine mistake blah blah blah)

btw ronaldo being the best/highest rated champions league player in 2009/10
is according to the messi bible(whoscored.com)
i dont have a problem with anyone that disagrees and generally the best player is usually someone who performs well in the KO stage
what i do have a problem with is this subjective application of whoscored ratings

 

Obviously not according to whom?
In big games he definitely was better and more pivotal to his team

against the exact same big teams messi did alot of unprecedented stat padding in la liga 2011/12

Goals+assists vs periodic top 6 la liga teams

Cristiano ronaldo 2011/12(forward)
13 goals+4 assists out of 23 team goals
Percentage involvement:74%

Lionel messi 2011/12(forward)
19 goals+2 assists out of 33 team goals
Percentage involvement:64%

Lionel messi 2012/13(striker)
11 goals+2 assists out of 25 team goals
Percentage involvement::52%

 

Why?
He has 3 CL titles to 4 league titles in a managerial career stretching back almost 20 years

2 of his league titles were a given if we're being perfectly honest(at bayern and especially PSG were the kit man could be appointed manager and they would still win)

You really cant be more of a CL specialist than ancelloti(won with 2 different teams aswell which gives him a slight advantage over zidane but probably not busby who won multiple league titles)

 

Because if someone won lottery 3 times you wouldnt call him a lottery specialist. Talking about specialization in a tournament of champions league format is ridiculous.

I mean whats next?
Cristiano is ucl 1/4 finals specialist?
Ferguson is the 90+ minutes specialist?
Germany is the penalty shotouts specialists?
Chile is the Copa America specialists?
Emery is Europa league specialist?
...

 

Don’t think winning more Champions Leagues than league titles alone makes you a specialist. Unless the person in question has a high number of league wins, which isn’t the case here.

If anything, it just shows Ancelotti sucks at winning league titles.

 

And someone who needs 93rd minute Ramos header to bring him 1 of 3 ucls, i mean how weak his argument can get. Zidane being manager for 3 seasons (compared to near 20 years managerial career) already equaled his number of titles.
And what would that even mean, ucl specialist? What is about his managerial style that fancy champions league over any other format? Whats the hypothesis there?

Not every pattern in life has meaning, some things happen by mere chances without hidden truth behind it. Of hundreds managers that managed great teams in champions league, it is expected that some managers will have ratio of ucls to leagues similar that of Ancelotti for no other reasons than mere coincedence.