Crisis in Colombia (2019)

Discussion in 'Women's International' started by sbahnhof, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
    Speaks for itself:

    Women’s football in Colombia: harassment, blackmail, and sexual assault of minors - https://colombiareports.com/womens-...sment-blackmail-and-sexual-assault-of-minors/ (Archived)

    Women footballers in Colombia revolt over mistreatment - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...lombia-revolt-over-mistreatment-idUSKBN1QQ0F1 (Archived)


    This follows previous allegations over the FCF's treatment of the team. Fifa and Conmebol are investigating the case too.


    [​IMG]
    Colombia against Paraguay in a 2018 U20 game
    (photo: Agencia de Noticias ANDES, cc-by-sa)


     
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  2. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
    FCF has also cancelled the Colombian women's league, whose champions Atlético Huila are the champions of South America's Copa Libertadores.

    In defense of women's soccer (Sergio Guzman)
    - https://thebogotapost.com/in-defense-of-womens-soccer/36810/ (Archived)

     
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  3. law10

    law10 Member+

    Dec 26, 2007
    What an embarrassing stain on the country.

    FIFA should do an inquiry and toss the men's program for a long time until they learn to honor and support their women and get out of the dark ages.
     
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  4. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Hot damn... that's pretty awful to cancel the league. :confused: I mean, they've shot themselves in the foot for hosting WWC2023, but that's a minor point compared to all the other fallout from this whole mess. For a team that made two straight WWCs and had the upset of the tournament in 2015 to advance to the knockouts, this is just gonna completely crash the program. The ladies deserve to play, and deserve to be treated with respect for their play.
     
  5. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    And actually, as of late last night and HUGE pushback from multiple sources, it sounds like the league is still on:
     
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  6. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Yeah, let us destroy the national team which brought world recognition and revenue to Colombian football: their men's national team.

    How about this? Punish those accused of sexual misconduct and extortion thru the Colombian judicial system.
    Do it like former referees did/do in Colombia: judicial cases opened with Colombia's Attorney General.

    When are those female players planning to put their cases thru their judicial system? Why wait for FIFA to investigate sex crimes?
     
  7. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    What ppl miss is why Dimayor (Colombia league organizer) plans to demote its women's league to amateur status: negative club revenue in women's professional league---> no money for professional salaries---> return to an amateur league, without professional salaries.

    If social media reaction for Colombian women's football could be monetized, then its women's league would have a chance... but who watches/attends women's games? So much easier for ppl to ask businesses to burn money, but then those ppl *forget* to watch/attend women's games.

    Top female players in Colombia knew in 2018 that their professional league ran with an unsustainable model. Words from well-known Catalina Usme and Carmen Rodallega:
    Usme and Rodallega talk about their league future (Dec 2018) (open)

    Catalina Usme, gran figura de la Selección Colombia y actual delantera del América de Cali, aseguró que nunca creyó en los rumores de que no habría Liga para el año que viene, pues nunca hubo un pronunciamiento oficial de la Dimayor.

    Contó que confía en una reestructuración del fútbol femenino en Colombia, “porque como funcionaba no iba a durar mucho tiempo, para nadie es un secreto que sostener un proyecto de ese tipo para un equipo es muy difícil”.

    También consideró que la duración de la Liga no depende de la cantidad de equipos y que “lo ideal es que se haga una liga larga o los dos semestres”.

    Carmen Rodallega, lateral derecha del Atlético Huila, coincidió en el anhelo de Usme. “Que sea como la de hombres, todos contra todos y clasifiquen los mejores equipos y se pueda jugar cada ocho días”, finalizó.


    The key here is business sustainability, not knee-jerk reaction to social media in favor of gender equality.

    How would you ask a club, which manages a modest male squad, to absorb financial losses from a *mandatory* female squad?
     
  8. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Probably b/c any time a country's legal system gets involved in football-related stuff, FIFA threatens to suspend the entire federation, which would means a shutdown of the senior and youth WNTs, which is more than a bit counterproductive if the women want to keep playing.
     
  9. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    No, these are serious allegations about sexual misconduct, and must be reported to law enforcement. FIFA has little to do there.

    Sex crimes within football clubs occur all the time, but are quickly wiped out of sport media. Look at recent cases of youth male abuse at Paraguayan and Argentinian clubs. Cases were referred to state prosecutors in each country. Nobody said a peep after a few articles, because big club names were involved.

    Male referees in Colombia started speaking out against a top Conmebol referee. Fear of reprisal and shame are reasons to stay quiet, but things are changing for both genders.
     
  10. law10

    law10 Member+

    Dec 26, 2007
    Thankfully in the year 2019 "my son has a great job so I can beat my daughter" is not a successful legal defense in most countries in the world.

    These are reports of serious issues - systemic forms of the abuse of women, charging them to play nationally, not paying money owed, an unsafe environment. Until they are dealt with the ability to continue to generate revenue should be impacted.
     
  11. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    @law10 , you got it backwards: your son is unaccountable for abuse which some loser inflicts on your daughter... in that analogy, the parent of both siblings is the abuser.

    The mistake is to seek punishment against a third party, instead of abusers. Direct course of action is to use the Colombian judicial system against those lowlifes.

    Good news is that the judicial process is well underway. Colombia's Attorney General will present sexual harassment charges against both former members of the women's u17 coaching staff:
    - Managing coach Didier Luna.
    - Fitness coach Sigifredo Alonso.
    It is unclear which charges will be presented against the former managing coach of the women's national team, Felipe Taborda.

    The Attorney General is currently holding rounds of depositions. Formal indictment against Luna is scheduled for April 22nd.
    Details from those depositions show real despicable behavior.

    https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/fu...scalia-solicito-audiencia-didier-luna-7337089
    https://www.rcnradio.com/judicial/didier-luna-amenazaba-con-acabar-el-futbol-femenino-en-colombia

    Prize money owed to players does not qualify as a crime. Under FIFA WC regulations, prize money is paid to national federations. Whatever happens to the money afterwards is not regulated by FIFA. Such dispute occurs often with male squads.

    Players must watch their backs before international tournaments, and sign agreements with their federation in regards to prize money distribution.
     
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  12. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Colombia was interested in bidding for the 2023 WWC. If the women's league were to get dissolved, Colombia wouldn't be able to place a bid.
     
  13. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    @toad455 , the original plan was to demote its women's league to semi-pro/amateur status, not to abolish it... trying to minimize club expenses by eliminating mandatory professional salaries.

    Most recent plan postpones its women's league until August 2019 (previous season ran Feb - Apr 2018).
    https://www.elcomercio.com/deportes/liga-femenina-futbol-colombia-2019.html

    As that article indicates, the problem is financing the women's league. If insufficient money is raised, then it makes sense to have a semi-pro league. That is a likely outcome: one commission member of the postponed league is the Amateur Footballers Union.

    The requirement for WWC bids is "having a national women's league". Just like South Africa's rival bid, a Colombian bid is valid despite having a non-professional women's league.

    National federations must register their WWC 2023 bids by April 16. Their bid documentation must be sent to FIFA by Oct 4.
    Confirmed bids: Australia, Japan, New Zealand, South Africa.
    In March 2020, FIFA will hold a secret vote for the WWC 2023 host. 37 individuals will participate in that secret exercise.

    Sources (open)

    WWC 2023 bid process
    https://apnews.com/432fb3cfab62458d8375fb33a2f1ab56
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_FIFA_Women's_World_Cup#Host_selection

    Colombian women's league, postponed 2019 season
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liga_Profesional_Femenina_de_Fútbol_2019_(Colombia)

    South African women's clubs currently sustained by national federation grants (US $ ~2.2K dollars per club, per season)
    https://www.newframe.com/safa-must-level-playing-field-women
    South African government donation towards women's pro league launch (US $ ~115.6K per season, for a period of 3 seasons)
    https://www.iol.co.za/sport/soccer/...llion-to-new-sa-womens-soccer-league-18840097
    South Africa: women's pro league launch postponed until August 2019
    https://mg.co.za/article/2019-01-25-00-womens-league-in-safa-limbo
    South African women's national team finally paid qualifiers bonus, promised by national federation (total bonus of US $ ~7.7K per player)
    https://mg.co.za/article/2019-01-21-banyana-paid-now-its-on-to-the-football

     
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  14. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
  15. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
    While the players were busy saving the league from the shameless Federation, another news story began - this time in men's football:

    Referees complain of sexual abuse, latest scandal in Colombian football
    - bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-47576653 (Autotranslated /
    Archived)


    Responding insensitively, 35 referees signed a letter saying they personally hadn't suffered abuse and didn't need sexual favours to get their promotions – an awful response, no matter how they felt about the people involved.

    Is this the standard of people the FCF federation employs – not the accused/accusers, but the kind of people who dismiss a serious accusation? (And they're paid to be neutral!) As Gabriel Camargo's openly jurassic attitudes show, Colombia's male football culture needs a big change. Jenny Gámez said the FCF hasn't listened to women for 50 years, which would explain a few things.

    [​IMG]
    Football federation HQ in Bogotá, Colombia (Futbolero, cc-by-sa)
     
  16. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
  17. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
  18. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
  19. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
    Meaning of course, FCF, Dimayor, some of the clubs, etc. A lot of it needs to change.

    To their great credit, the Colombian men's team treated the allegations with the seriousness they deserved, and spoke out:

    The players of the Selección, against harassment: "We support our compañeras" - co.marca.com/claro/futbol/seleccion-colombia/2019/03/05/5c7ec02be5fdea33228b45d2.html, Autotranslated (Archive)

    [​IMG]

    Our 'colleagues' on the Colombia men's NT forum were even angrier than we were!

     
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  20. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Part of the problem here is the extent of liability in employer/employees relationships.

    The Colombian federation (FCF) considers the matter resolved by firing those accused of misconduct. Same way as FIFA deals with its corrupt executives/referees: lengthy or lifetime bans.

    Cannot say how you change a country's football culture, but I do know how you change corporate culture within federations: judicial proceedings plus punishments.

    After nearly all Conmebol federation presidents were extradited to the United States for criminal misconduct, each federation moved towards corporate transparency. Federation changes were made after those incarcerations.

    Biggest opportunity for change in FCF is to find it liable for abused minors, who were under federation care.

    U17 coach Didier Luna, accused of sexually harassing a minor, was fired by FCF on December 2018. He was supposed to be indicted in April 22.
    He is currently out on the street, giving university talks on women's football, as of May 3.
    http://www.wradio.com.co/noticias/a...e-mujeres-y-futbol/20190503/nota/3898320.aspx

    Among its various committees, FCF has a women's football committee consisting of 3 members, 2 are female.
    Unfortunately, such female presence seems questionable: 1 female is president of Rionegro Aguilas, a first division club lacking a female squad in Colombian league.
    http://fcf.com.co/index.php/2015/03/12/comision-futbol-femenino/
    https://feminafutbol.com/personajes/sofia-navarro-necesitamos-la-liga-femenina-de-un-ano-18653/

    To be clear though, you cannot find FCF liable without accusing it first.

    On a separate matter, as I suspected, the Colombian women's league will move towards being an amateur competition. There are no funds to support professional wages+benefits.
    Amateur club Formas Intimas supports that idea. Former powerhouse of Colombian women's football.
    https://feminafutbol.com/noticias/1...ealidad-del-futbol-femenino-colombiano-23018/
     
  21. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
    :rolleyes:

    The 2019 Colombian women's professional league is announced – scheduled from mid-July until October, with 20 teams.

    Next up for the Colombia WNT, a friendly last night. Away in Chile, where the two teams had drawn twice at the 2018 Copa América, 0-0 and 1-1.

    Chile vs Colombia, 19 May 2019 match
    - youtube.com/watch?v=H9RVb8L_MD0
    [​IMG]


    A horrible injury to Catalina Usme after 85 minutes – an apparent head blow for which she briefly fell unconscious on the field, and she had to be hospitalized. Really hope she's OK.

    This was the COL starting XI:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
    Scary news about Leidy Asprilla



    Are kidnappings common in Colombia?
     
  23. sbahnhof

    sbahnhof Member+

    Nov 21, 2016
    Aotearoa
    RIP, Leidy Asprilla

    The cause of her death is still unknown. The attorney general's office is looking into an apparent motorcycle accident on the road from El Cerrito to Rozo.

    [​IMG]

    "Leidy Asprilla was a forward of the women's team of Orsomarso, belonged to Selección Valle and also went through the U-17 and U-20 categories for Colombia, until reaching the senior category, from which she had to leave due to an injury. Leidy Asprilla left her studies because of the passion she had for the sport, specifically soccer and thus she managed to be part of the Colombian national team." - (RCN)

    "Again, a tragedy tarnishes Colombian football and the Orsomarso team that on September 30 of last year received the news of the murder of the midfielder Leyder Ortiz Palacios in Guachené, Cauca, when he was trying to avoid a fight." - (Marca)

     
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  24. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member+

    Aug 31, 2011
    Wroclaw
    Very sad. :(
     
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